[ SECRET POST #2923 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2923 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 065 secrets from Secret Submission Post #418.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

http://thoughtcatalog.com/carolyn-hall/2014/04/6-things-i-dont-understand-about-the-fat-acceptance-movement/

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

Everything that article said is common sense.

I am pro-fat acceptance in the sense that I don't feel fat people should be treated like crap for being fat.

So what if someone overeats and gets fat (though I am aware that this isn't the case for all fat people, some of whom have medical issues)? Everyone has a vice -- some people smoke, some people drink, some people are assholes on internet forums.

Being fat isn't a fucking sin.

But that's the extent of my support for fat acceptance. It's not good to be overweight, but you shouldn't be poorly treated because of it either.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

As shocking as it is to say this about a thought catalog, I don't think it's written from a place of real knowledge and experience, and so it's hard to really see what it brings to the table. It's almost the first reactions most people have to the idea of fat acceptance, and while most of those reactions have some validity, I don't think it's especially difficult to find a more nuanced position that takes that into account. It's not a great piece.

DISCLAIMER: yes I'm sure that there are some people on tumblr who really do advance ideas in the unnuanced form that the piece is operating with. I agree those people are wrong but at a certain point we have to stop just refuting idiots and deal with substance I think.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think people should be made fun of because they are fat. However I dont think we should pretend it is not terribly unhealthy. because it is. If there are two people who are the same in every aspect but one is overweight, the overweight one will be unhealthier.

Also, some of the "fat acceptance movement" practices are dangerous. No it is not bad for a parent to stop their child from eating every fucking thing in the house. Nor is it bad for a parent to make their child work out and lose weight.

And yes, your being overweight affects me. Overweight people require more health services and if you are uninsured, I will be paying for that.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

"And yes, your being overweight affects me. Overweight people require more health services and if you are uninsured, I will be paying for that."

Actually, I recall reading that, overall, overweight people cost society LESS because they live less long and thus don't require the extremely expensive elderly care that slimmer people do.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that being overweight is all things equal less healthy. But to me the point with weight and health is that health is a continuum, not a binary state, and there are a lot of different ways to be more or less healthy, and transporting standards of physical beauty into health doesn't help anyone with that.

Or to put it in other terms, screaming "Lose some weight, fatty!" at someone is not actually medical advice

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

And yes, your being overweight affects me. Overweight people require more health services and if you are uninsured, I will be paying for that.

Then wouldn't it make more sense to focus on how unhealthy it is to be uninsured than how unhealthy it is to be fat?

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

And yes, your being overweight affects me. Overweight people require more health services and if you are uninsured, I will be paying for that.

Which would be equally true of every single potentially unhealthy habit or lifestyle choice anyone makes. Strangely enough, I don't ever see this same logic applied to people's drinking, or choice to ride a motorcycle, or the hideous strain a lot of athletes inflict on their bodies.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

Then we might as well kill everyone who's got lifelong problems since they require more health services and can't always get insurance.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

"And yes, your being overweight affects me. Overweight people require more health services"

I had a coworker who advanced that proposition (we live in a land of universal health care funded by taxes.) She also thought people who smoked should not get care for illnesses they had "brought upon themselves." So I asked her whether, if I fell off my horse and broke a bone, I should be penalized because I had engaged in a dangerous sport. Or if she, a runner, should be penalized if she eventually needed work on her knees. If we start down the path of "you brought that on yourself" there is no telling where we'll end up. It certainly won't end with punishing the fatties.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

I think this is in the "everything's relative" bracket. Like kids being bullied over being overweight - my middle and high school had that here and there, but honestly, I knew popular kids - a cheerleader, even - who were overweight. However, that was my experience as someone who wasn't overweight myself, so I never had to worry about being judged for it. Perhaps I was so wrapped up in the things I was rejected and teased for, I never noticed what other kids were rejected and teased for. Maybe they'd say "uh, I knew kids who had learning disabilities and were still popular!" And actually, they'd be 100% right about that.

I do think that we have to be careful about differentiating between body shaming and promoting healthy habits, but that goes both ways. Just because someone's thin doesn't mean they're anorexic; just because someone's heavy doesn't mean they eat too much. At the same time, my young nephew is severely overweight, and her parents accuse anyone who points that out of fat shaming. (Not in those words, but same thing.) No, we're legitimately concerned for his health. And it is because he eats too much; I've seen it for myself.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

SA

... his parents. Sorry.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[fingalsanteater]

Just reading her number 1 let's me know she has no fucking idea what she is talking about. Not only that, she contradicts herself within the paragraph. America is absolutely not accepting of fat people. The fact that our lifestyle lends itself to obesity is a separate issue having nothing to do with acceptance.

She follows up this "article" with a whiny post claiming she's not concern trolling, which she was called out on. She's totally concern trolling by posting an article criticizing something she has no knowledge of while packaging it as an attempt to "understand." She wasn't trying to understand shit. She just wanted to post about how the fat-acceptance movement makes her uncomfortable and how she disagree with things that she doesn't even understand.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

Not trying to start anything, but seriously. American food has to be at least part of the reason why obesity is such an issue. I don't know whether it's the ingredients or the portion sizes, but everytime I go to America the weight starts piling on.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

I kind of disagree with you regarding your first point. Have you ever been to any European nation or Asian nation (France, Italy, South Korea, Japan, etc.)? They are MUCH less accepting of being overweight than America.

I'm 5'2" and 125 pounds (not fat but by no means skinny) and people South Korea and Japan flat out just told me that I was too fat and needed to lose weight.

Contrast that to America, where it's considered extremely impolite to bring up someone's weight and where we have all a manner of inventions and services that cater to the overweight.

I'm not saying America is wrong to do this, just that I can't agree with you that America isn't accepting of fat people. Compared to the rest of the developed world, we are.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[insanenoodlyguy]

Not much to muse about. The varying issue of "acceptance" (which like a lot of social issues of other kinds is gonna be different for any given person n any given place) 2-6 are completely right.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[diet_poison]

There's a really important distinction between being accepting of people who are fat and encouraging unhealthy lifestyles. This is especially true with kids - childhood obesity is so sad because of how it hurts children but they kids themselves don't deserve to be ridiculed as they often are.

This article isn't really anything new.

(Also, who actually says you're not "allowed" to be attracted to certain body types? I'm sure it's out there, but I haven't seen it - is this really common somewhere?)

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[darkmanifest]

Also, who actually says you're not "allowed" to be attracted to certain body types? I'm sure it's out there, but I haven't seen it - is this really common somewhere?

In experience, it's basically a few people feeling they're being attacked for not being attracted to fat people, when really they're being attacked for being rude about how unattractive they find fat people. Because apparently preference and courtesy are mutually exclusive.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen it on Tumblr. "Your so-called preference for thin white cis bodies is just cultural programming and until you make a serious and sustained effort to overcome it you can't call yourself an ally."

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

The problem is that unhealthy foods are cheaper. I'm betting you a majority of obese kids are from lower-income households. I can get cheap shit for a good price. I can get half that in healthy food for the same price. And that's not going to last me the month.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

Part of the issue, in the US at least, is that the common definition of "fat" and "thin" doesn't really line up that well with what's medically sound. Even the oft trotted out "fat people die sooner!" studies showed that the correlation had more to do with hip-to-waist ratio than weight or dress size, and one person's healthy weight is going to be another person's underweight or overweight.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

Do you have any studies on that?

Just asking because it's something I would very much like to show my family, because they are crazy about weight.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

actually the US probably has the most generous definition of fat and thin in terms of health. that's what the bmi is is for, and the bmi, when you account for bone structure, is actually pretty close to being accurate, and it is VERY generous. i'm at the very top of my bmi normal limit, and i personally would consider myself rather overweight. if i cut sugar out of my diet, which i have an unfortunate addiction to, and exercised more than like once a week on good weeks, i would defnitely shed at least 15 lbs over a year or so, easily.

if you're fat, you're not eating healthy, period. if you're eating whole foods, cooking most of your food (thereby maximizing the amount of micro-nutrients you receive), cutting out sugar (which is basically poison), eating balanced meals (good amounts of carbs, healthy fats, and protein), and you exercise normally, it is literally impossible to get fat unless it's medical problem (like thyroid disorder). and i mean fat as in exceeding your bmi limit.

if you're thin, it doesn't necessarily mean you are healthy, or eating healthy, or even taking care of your body in any way. being fat is just a very visible way of being unhealthy. even smokers can do so in private if they choose to. i don't know, honestly, i'm kind of split on this issue because on one hand i think your health is your business, but on the other hand, i think the more people who are unhealthy, the more it influences other people to be less concerned about their own health. i don't really mind condemning unhealthy behavior...but people who are fat shouldn't get more shit for it than smokers or drinkers. or people who sleep like 3 hours a night. or skinny people who eat doritos as a food staple (my brother).

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

Had a conversation about this topic with a friend a while back, and what we eventually came up with was this:

There's a difference between health and appearance.

Both sides of the argument (for and against fat acceptance) tend to conflate these two, which maybe is where a lot of the conflict happens.

Fat acceptance is about pushing back against a world which tells us, over and over, that if we're not a certain size, we're ugly, we're worthless. It's about rejecting that norm of beauty as incredibly limiting.

That's different from critiquing things on the basis of health. I think you can critique those who are obese because of overeating and lack of exercise, just the same as you can critique smokers or alcoholics for the damage they do themselves. But here's the key thing, when it comes to that last bit: don't be an asshole about how you talk about health.

Most people's "concern" comes in the form of commentary about how you must be miserable at that weight, don't you want to get down to something healthier, you'll feel better and look better. You can claim that you're coming from a position of genuine concern for a person's health, but it often ends up just sounding like "You should lose weight so you fit this standard of what's pretty."

Which, to be honest, fat people get from the world all the time anyway. It's probably why there's such strong backlash against this kind of commentary.

Re: been musing about this but not sure what to think

[(Anonymous)]

i agree with pretty much everything in that article.