[ SECRET POST #4614 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4614 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 43 secrets from Secret Submission Post #661.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. https://i.imgur.com/jLYhGcu.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

I am against harassment and I think that harassment is wrong.

I don't agree that this has to be a simplistic black-and-white debate. The idea that "the people who want to censor fandom" quote-unquote can be grouped into one category, and that all of them agree with each other, that anyone who disagrees with YKINMK agrees with people who are against all homosexuality in fic, I don't agree with this, it's clearly absurd. Just grouping all this together is completely groundless. Insisting that this is inexorably going to lead to throwing the baby out with the bathwater - it's just a slippery slope argument, with no more validity than any other slippery slope argument.

We can have a more nuanced conversation about it if we want to. Clearly, it doesn't seem like we actually want to, but it's possible in theory. I think this is complicated and we should approach it like it's a complicated. I don't have any interest in telling anyone that their fantasies are impure. I think we can have conversations about how fiction generally, and fanfiction in particular, reflect our fantasies and our morals, and how fiction and fanfiction impact the world, without insisting on either one absolutist position or the other.

In conclusion, I would like to reiterate that I am not in favor of harassment.

[(Anonymous)]

Wild applause for this comment. I couldn't agree more.

[(Anonymous)]

I started laughing at the part about how the far-right is influencing antis to be antis.

You do know fandom is hugely left, right? Do you really think the left can't draw lines in the sand about what's appropriate in fiction just as easily as anyone else???

[(Anonymous)]

It does seem slightly absurd.

[feotakahari]

We already know some TERF activists receive financial support from fundamentalist Christian groups. Antis probably aren’t influential enough to get money, but they can at least be seen as fellow-travelers.

[(Anonymous)]

I think that a lot of the thought-patterns align.

TERFs are largely left too, and they love to target young gay and lesbian people to get their thought-patterns to be bi-, trans-, and queerphobic.

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, I agree. People above are calling it absurd, but the far-far left reminds me of the far right more and more. They might have different ideas on what is right and moral and what behavior should be tightly regulated, but they both want to control people's behaviors and thoughts. Censorship is censorship no matter the politics behind it.

[(Anonymous)]

They might have different ideas on what is right and moral and what behavior should be tightly regulated, but they both want to control people's behaviors and thoughts.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. I mean, to the extent that one believes in right and morality, one necessarily also believes that people should act in the way that is morally right, and not in the way that is morally wrong. But this is obviously not the same as actually controlling people's thoughts. There's a big gap there.

Censorship is censorship no matter the politics behind it.

I don't know if I agree with this, because I'm not sure what we mean by "censorship". If it means specifically censorship by the force of law, then I totally agree, I don't think the law should enter into it.

But people seem to go beyond this. The argument seems to be that censorship by social means - by social persuasion and peer pressure and moral condemnation - is censorship in the same way that censorship by the force of law is. And, one, I'm not sure that I agree that it is meaningfully the same as censorship by force of law. It seems to me that it's sort of the inevitable result of living in a society where people agree or disagree on things, and that the use of legal strictures is qualitatively different than the use of social pressure.

Two, it seems to me that it's justifiable, and actually desirable and good to have social pressure against some views. I think it is good, for example, that there is considerable social pressure against espousing Neo-Nazism.

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly! Both are 100% about controlling other people. They're both authoritarian movements.

[(Anonymous)]

and this is what i mean when i say the term 'anti' is now fucking useless, bc ppl want to lump it onto everyone who's even mildly critical of fandom spaces and equate them all with fascist right-win nutjobs.

bc being bothered by actual kiddie-porn makes you some right-wing conservative according to you fucking weirdos.

also: please stop using the word censorship, none of you fickwits actually seem to KNOW what it means. it's not ppl on the internet not wanting to read your fic/interact with your content. it's when a government actively interferes and controls what kind of media you can consume/information you can access, some random fuckos on the internet do not have the ability to do this in any way bc you are still completely free to post whatever you want.

[(Anonymous)]

you know there's a difference between people not wanting to read your fic/interact with your content on the internet (which is fine, obviously. No one should be forced to read/interact with anything) and saying "I don't like this therefore it shouldn't exist" and actively campaign for those things to not exist.

and yeah, censorship is the government shutting down content. Do you really think people that are antis and want things to be regulated to their liking aren't pro-censorship? like wtf do you think they want?

[feotakahari]

I recently saw someone accused of being a “pedo” for criticizing TERFs. This led to death threats and harassment against their husband and daughter, who weren’t even involved in the initial comment. Forgive me for being skeptical that this is really about “kiddie porn.”

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just amused because by God can you imagine the crying and wailing if you banned the hardcore kink noncon het porn that a lot of internet far righters enjoy? CENSORSHIP! IM BEING OPPRESSED!

Honestly if there's one thing I think left and right can agree on it's that the porn must flow

[(Anonymous)]

While on Tumblr, I recently came across a link to a survey that gave you a rough indication of how authoritarian your thinking was, based on how strongly you agreed or disagreed with a range of statements.
I was quite pleased with my result, and then I looked at some of the notes on the Tumblr post and had to laugh:
Numerous people were complaining that the statements were unclear - things like "I want to government to imprison or kill all the bad people", and they were pouting because well, they DO want the government to imprison or kill all the Nazis and the pedophiles and the people who ship incest who are obviously moral deviants! But is that what the statement was talking about? ??
And I'm just sitting there and laughing because of course that's an authoritarian position! Of course thinking the government should dictate morality and lock people up for violating that morality is authoritarian!
Obviously I can't do any reliable surveys of the anti population, but I would lay money that most of them have grown up under conservative cultures, and though they would almost all describe themselves as liberal, they're still drawing from the conservative playbook, and can't work out why trying to drive someone to suicide for drawing filthy deviant art is supposed to be bad.

[(Anonymous)]

You know there’s a problem when the little shits in fandom are celebrating the fact that BL writers in China are sentenced to jail.

[(Anonymous)]

I think this place goes way too far in defending kinks tbh. Someone straight up said "fuck you" to an assault victim yesterday because they told OP that fantasizing about women getting raped for manpain is messed up based on their own experience. Shit like that is not cool.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I think the people who keep whining about tumblr should spend a day or two on 4chan's /tv/ and /pol/ boards or 8chan to see the other side and how frightening it really is. Though judging by how vehemently this place defends lewd stuff pertaining to children, they'd probably be fine with all the adult men making "cunny" threads.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Thank god this site is dying out, I hope you all keep getting harassed on tumblr because it sounds like you cunts deserve it. Die mad, old hags.

everyone in this thread needs a snickers bar

[(Anonymous)]

like immediately

[(Anonymous)]

I wish there could be more “piss off I like what I like” bye frankly antis don’t have jobs, lives or hobbies judging by the time they spend doxing people,

Petulant children ( of any age) who want to make the world just like they like it? They are the people who vote for trump if they are doing it from “ the place with the moral high ground.”

Just go read something else if you don’t want to read the squick fic. There’s plenty out there

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a feminist and I write/read non con fic and agree that we need more talk around women's sexuality in society.
Having said that, it's far more nuanced than that.
I personally am creeped out by the amount of people on this thread who are defending writing and reading/drawing art that involves children. I don't care that it's 'not real' that's just making an excuse.
If it's that people are working through their own abuse issues with the art/fan fic, then that makes sense to me.
For the others though, maybe rather than being all defensive, wonder why you're getting off on stuff to do with CHILDREN? Or defending stuff that has to do with CHILDREN? Again, if it's a story that deals with abuse and the person is now an adult working through what happened to them as a child, or even a child dealing then that could be a well written story.
But there is a difference to me of someone wanting to explore the horrific result of child abuse through story and someone who's just writing a story to get off.
Example- I once stumbled across a fic where Loki (explicitly described as 12) is a male prostitute and Tony (20s) is in a relationship with him and it's a 'loving' relationship (I skimmed the first chapter and then stopped in disgust). The author didn't seem to notice (or care) that they had made Tony friggen Stark a paedophile! All the comments on the fic were gushing and one person who did point out that Tony STark was now a paedophile was condemned by the other readers!
Fuck! It's not difficult. Do I think people should be harassed? Hell no! But maybe these 'antis' are frustrated because they're constantly coming across people *cough* like who keep showing up here on fandomsecrets- who keep justifying wanting to write/read/consume some messed up stuff and then defending themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

Yup, I agree.

[(Anonymous)]

In my opinion, it's the same reason why in real life wealthy masc4masc white gay couples (and also wealthy transgender individuals who pass) don't get and outright reject femme guys, genderqueer individuals and any other layer of LGBTQIA+ that challenges the cis-het norm. And I hate to yell PATRIARCHY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL!! but I do believe that this is what it comes down to when they demonise anything outside the cis-het vanilla norm, whether it's kinky fantasies, or presentation and self-expression IRL.

[(Anonymous)]

100% agree.