[ SECRET POST #6509 ]

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⌈ Secret Post #6509 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 06 secrets from Secret Submission Post #930.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

He hasn't hit me or emotionally abused me. He's not even an awful person, exactly. He's just stubbornly lazy, careless and inconsiderate and I'm tired of it. He will:

* leave a trail of little messes all over the house: lights and fans left on, dirty plates/bowls/cups, crumbs/food debris on kitchen counters, dirty clothes tossed on the floor even though we have multiple laundry hampers, toilets he forgets to flush, mail he needs to sort and either toss or file away if it's important, hiking gear spread out over the dining table for weeks and months on end while he says he'll put it away very soon, etc. etc.

* Irregular schedule with long hours that requires me to hold down the fort at home, do extra work to make sure he's got hot dinners when he gets home, packed lunches, packed snacks, coffee thermos kept full, breakfast-to-go to save him time but he's never done even a fraction of this for me when I'm busy with work or physically incapacitated.

* A small number of "outside" chores that don't need to be done on a daily or even weekly basis and the only thing he manages to do is take out the trash because I remind him. Lawn doesn't get mowed, yard looks like an embarrassing jungle, doesn't fix a damn thing even though he insisted on buying expensive tools and an expensive riding mower so he could do all of those things.

* never says thank you for anything, frequently "forgets" to clean up after himself, won't pitch in to get a task done unless I ask him, then tell him exactly what to do, then stand over his shoulder to make sure he follows directions or he'll half-ass it or do something completely different.

* whenever I have an issue and want to talk, he's too tired and I'm hassling him because he's had such a hard day and doesn't have the energy to do this. When I bring it up later, he doesn't want to discuss it because it's a downer on his good mood, so somehow there's never a good time to address my concerns. He gets upset when I point this out like it's unfair. I ask him to choose a time, and he doesn't want to do that either and it's my fault for being so difficult.

* every little thing I ask him to do is either met with sulky resistance or huffy agreement (because I'm nagging him or treating him like a child) and then he won't do it either way. This includes huge asks like "please make sure you close the fridge/freeezer door all the way" and "please turn on the bathroom fan and let it run a few minutes if you have a smelly dump". It's always "I forgot" but he doesn't want to write it down so he can remember and he doesn't want to be reminded because that makes him feel incompetent, he just wants to keep forgetting to do things and for me to stop asking him.

This man swore I was the best thing to ever happen to him, that I was the most important person in his life and he'd do anything for me. He's proud of my intelligence and common sense, but somehow that never seems to translate into listening to my ideas or taking my suggestions. If I asked him to run to the store for tampons and chocolate because I'm dying from period cramps and bleeding, he'd do it without blinking, but he'll sit and play solitaire on his phone while I'm curled up on the couch in the fetal position and it won't occur to him to ask if I need anything, could he make me a cup of tea and get me a motrin, would I like him to order out for pizza, etc. No. He'll just sit there while I'm in pain and occasionally express sympathy while waiting for me to get up and make dinner. He loves my cooking and boasts about my skills, but he never offers to give me a night off by cooking dinner and we try to save money by not eating out very often. I've suggested this to him, asked him to make dinner once a month, on one of his days off... that's too hard, he can't do it. He'll talk about his plans to make this-or-that, but they never happen and he doesn't notice because he thinks that expressing the desire to cook dinner is just as good as making it. This man would give me one of his kidneys if I needed it (or at least, I think he would) but he wouldn't even think to bring me food and tea when I'm laid flat on my back with COVID, and he didn't even offer to help cook dinner - I still had to drag myself out of bed to provide food for both of us.

Over the years, my love and affection and respect for him has died off in bits and pieces. I don't know why I'm still here, except that it'd be financially messy to divorce him and there's custody issues to worry about. Every time I try to talk to him about this, he'll sulk or get upset and then blame me for saying things to upset him. Recently he floated the idea of couples counseling, but he's so unwilling to do any work at all on our relationship now that I feel like he'd just waste my time and our money by pretending to listen to a therapist and then going home and doing what he's always done, i.e. stroll through life like he's got zero responsibilities and magic fairies do his housework for him.

I wish I'd never gotten married. If I divorce, I never want to date another man as long as I live, I don't care if I die alone anymore, I just want some peace and quiet for the only messes I clean up to be my own. I want my own space that doesn't get invaded by some needy, helpless baby who can't find the can opener that's been in the same drawer for ten years. I struggle not to hate him for doing this to us, and for being such a lazy fucking asshole who fights to remain an emotionally stunted manchild whose mommy-wife wipes his ass and heats up his chicken nuggies for him while he plays video games. I hate that he'd rather do this than be a good, caring, considerate person and a good partner to me, but still expects me to believe that he loves me more than anything.

I have so much self-loathing for fucking my own life up this bad by trusting a man to be a decent partner and for not leaving earlier before life got so complicated. This whole marriage has made me bitter and depressed, and so exhausted that leaving sounds impossible.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[greghousesgf]

Jesus. I used to feel bad about the fact that I'll probably never get married but not now.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

I apologize for that. I don't mean to get anyone down about relationships or marriage, just... to caution women in particular about who they choose to tie themselves to. I did a lot of things I regret now because I thought I was trying to be a supportive partner. Nothing crazy, just what I thought was taking care of him, making sure he never had to help out much with house chores because he had a full time job, never making a fuss about needing care, powering through any illnesses because I didn't want to be a burden, that kind of thing. None of that is toxic on its own, but what happened was that my husband got really accustomed to doing nothing for me, not worrying about my feelings or my needs, not cleaning up after himself at all, stuff like that. He somehow loves me, but forgets that I'm not a robot housekeeper/cook, or that I would like the occasional night off, or maybe there are times when *I* need emotional support for something. And because he's never been asked to do those things for me, he has no clue where to start, doesn't want to listen when I tell him what I need, and gets frustrated really easily because even the smallest considerations feel like a huge, impossible effort and he wants to go back to the days when I did everything, never needed him to do anything, and never held him accountable for his behavior.

Before we got married, I wanted someone who'd be my best friend, who'd listen and understand me, and who I could do those things for in return. I thought I'd found this person. I would've bet my LIFE that I had for the first few years of marriage, but one lay-off later things started to sour really quickly and I realized that he was never a good listener, he was just good at keeping quiet and nodding occasionally. I loved him so much I thought I'd die without him. I couldn't imagine not being together, he was my best friend. He said he felt the same way. All of our friends said we were perfect for each other.

Don't give up your financial independence. Always have a bank account that's ONLY in your name and ONLY accessible to you, and make sure it's got enough to afford you an escape route. Don't give up your friendships or support network outside of marriage. Don't depend on a man for your happiness. Don't spare him emotional OR physical labor just so you can do it all for him. Don't set yourself on fire to keep him warm. Lock down your birth control and make sure it can't be tampered with and know where to get a plan B. Do not even THINK about having children until he's demonstrated that he can take care of himself 100% without your help, AND that he can care for a dependent on his own. That's all I want out of this, for other women not to end up unhappy and bitter and trying to figure out how to get out of their marriage without blowing up their lives.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Blow up your life. Seriously. He HAS to provide for you guys. Grab your kid(s) and just go. If you can’t leave the house, at least retain the best divorce lawyer in your area before he gets the chance to book them. Either find a new place or let him scramble to find something for himself. The divorce proceedings will force him to be accountable and you get your freedom. You and your kid(s) deserve that.

DA

[(Anonymous)]

Same. Even though I'm strictly heterosexual, I've never acted on my attraction towards men, and it used to make me feel sad, but now I realize I've been spared so much. Happy to die a virgin!

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

I spent a few years in your shoes and it sucks. I’m so sorry. I still look back on that time and wish I’d gone through with the divorce.

Couples counseling helped us. And I didn’t think it would because I thought he would approach it the same way he approached our shitty attempts to work things out ourselves. Hearing from an impartial party was beneficial to both of us. And our first session was a bit of a shock because we didn’t realize it was basically an assessment to gauge if we were worth the time. That might sound kinda awful but the reality is that some relationships can’t be saved. And by putting us on the spot to convince them that we were genuine got us both thinking about our goals as individuals and as the heads of our family. It got us thinking about what we appreciate about each other, consider reasonable goals, and face our own shortcomings. We went in as opponents because that’s how we’d been living for years and we walked out as two strained lovers not quite ready to believe there was hope. After a few sessions, we were a team again. It took a lot of work and we still fall back on what we learned because life is messy and conflicts can always arise.

In our case, my husband was faced with the choice of picking up the slack at home or hiring someone else to do it. The cost of yardwork every two weeks is a full days pay. The cost of a housekeeper coming in once a week is three days pay. He takes care of the yard now and helps clean the house. And we talk every evening, making sure to collaborate on stuff around the house or in regards to the family, and of course we vent about people at work or whatever, but we also talk about fun stuff, too.

Idk. It isn’t easy to decide what to do. In my case, there was no question about custody or living expenses; he would be alone and he’d have to pay double the cost to support us all than if we stayed together. The realization of the cost of divorce was a huge motivator for him. Plus, like your husband, he loves me more than anyone. But I fell out of love and hated every moment of my life being married to him for a long stretch and I deserve to be happy. I no longer cared if it broke him, I just needed free of the misery. I’m glad I got that freedom by us finding a way to be happy together but like I said, some days I still wish I could just leave and feel like I missed a great opportunity.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm so sorry, anon. That feels so familiar. I feel guilty and uncertain about not wanting to go to couples therapy because I feel like I'm giving up? But I've tried talking to him, and I communicate very clearly, and I feel like I've been carrying this marriage on my own for more than a decade while he is a dead weight who wants a happy marriage, but doesn't want to actually DO anything to make it work. He just wants me to be quiet and act like I'm happy and have no problems, like I did before. He says he doesn't want that, but then... he never wants to talk about it. He shuts down every attempt at civil communication. He asks me what he should do, I tell him, and then he fails to do it and blames me for not cheering him on or being more patient with him.

I suspect hearing from a third party would help him, but honestly, that idea pisses me off. He has a big problem with never listening to me, and swearing that he does. He will do that Shitty Man Thing where I'll float an idea and he'll dismiss it as not being feasible or whatever, then next week he'll proudly present me with the exact same idea and now it's totally great and we should do it because he came up with this brilliant plan by himself.

Financially, a divorce would cost him dearly. He does very little around the house and would have to figure out costs of housecleaning (I'm kidding, he'd just live in filth because he can't be bothered to research and engage a housecleaning company), childcare (probably the hardest and most expensive) and he can barely cook even when he's got time to do so, which he doesn't. The longest he's ever "babysat" was 3-4 hours. He has never done the entire day/night routine and would need me to write everything down for him. (I have, because of his work schedule.) But if the financial and physical effort cost convinced him to try harder and actually do the things he's supposed to do, I'd be furious because why the fuck can't he do that in the first place, why does it take divorce and the threat of massive debt and becoming 50% primary caretaker for him to FINALLY get his shit together? Why was he okay with me getting the short end of the stick and shouldering most of the household burden and being miserable and unhappy until he's in danger of losing his free cook, housekeeper and nanny?

That's why I'm not sure counseling would work. I wouldn't blame a therapist for not wanting to invest time in untangling this mess when I'm clearly reluctant to put more work into this marriage and I'm so resentful that my husband wants all the benefits of a happy marriage without any of the responsibility.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

You pointing out his flaws is just a wife nagging, a marriage counselor pointing them out is something to listen to. It shouldn’t be that way but it is and not just for men.
The financial fear: in my case, it was because I talked about divorce and he didn’t think I’d ever go through with it. He didn’t think things were that bad. He thought I was exaggerating about hating life and him. He thought I was exaggerating about the effort to do all the yard work and all the housework. I didn’t exaggerate a thing. And I have a debilitating condition that made every second of work 4-5 times harder than it is for a healthy person like him.

Counseling was a wake up call for him. I hate that he needed it and I totally understand your resentment. It shouldn’t be necessary. But sometimes it is.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Anon. Please grit your teeth, get your ducks in a row, get your separate bank account, find all his bank accounts, find a good divorce lawyer, and just fucking go. Chances are your family are willing you to do just this. You get one life. Live it. I wish I'd done the same years earlier; there were reasons why I couldn't, but I did in the end and though I'm disabled, life has been so much better since.

Take a look at the reddits for twoxchromosomes and breakingmom for many, many stories like yours. Look at the 4B movement in South Korea. Many men are deeply shitty and women are waking up to it. Other women have forged a life of their own. You can be one of them.

Hugs.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Why do you wish you'd gone through with a divorce if counseling helped and you're better now? I genuinely don't understand, unless you think you had some kind of feminist duty to become happy through divorcing instead of through your husband getting better.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT
Because part of making things work means compromise. Because I miss living alone. Because shit still happens even in a happy marriage and single life isn’t nearly as complicated. Because sometimes I’m just tired mentally, physically, emotionally and I don’t want to have to talk about or listen to anything but in a family things come up that can’t wait for a time when I’m feeling up to it.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Your second sentence makes you sound trollish, but I'm going to assume you're just very lucky and have never had or witnessed serious relationship issues. I haven't gone through counseling OR divorce, but I can guess ayrt's situation.

Sometimes even when you "win", the cost you had to pay was so high that it taints your "victory". I would not be able to look the same on a man who claims to love me more than anything, but who failed to treat me like a human being with feelings and needs UNTIL we paid a lot of money for him to be shamed repeatedly by a neutral third party. Even if my husband got his act together, apologized and improved, that doesn't erase the YEARS of suffering and misery that he was content to knowingly visit upon me simply because he didn't want to be bothered re: being a considerate partner.

All of that doesn't vanish just because things start getting better. Especially if you were the one who had to repeatedly force and insist and pressure the other person to get counseling and do the necessary marriage work because they were determined to leave you holding the bag.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Your husband needs an attorney, because it sounds like he needs to be divorcing you. I hope he finds someone better.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh honey, with what I've been through, one lazy, unoriginal troll can't do anything. But I can see that your life must be just as screwed up and sad because you still tried.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Sounds really difficult OP. My sympathies go out to you.

From what I've read, sounds like your husband is pulling to ol' weaponized incompetence.
Like, he needs you to tell him what to do. You need to stand there and watch him work if you want things done right. He can't stand feeling uncomfortable when you approach him on discussing difficult things so he whines and comes up with excuses because he knows you'll consider his feelings first and knows you will put your concerns and needs on hold.

Not going to jump to "divorce him", but I do hope you know that you deserve to put your needs and feelings first.

You can't change a person, but you can try to work on things with your husband (and if he continues his BS, remember that you can't change someone, only they can change in order to show to you that they want to do better for you - and if he won't do better and put you first in compromises, I don't think he ever will).

Every one deserves a chance to grow and change, but some people will operate with the mindset that they get infinite chances to keep being selfish so keep in mind how much he is willing to show up for you and how many chances you're willing to give him.

You deserve to be happy too. You deserve to be considered and catered to first.

You are his partner, not his mom. He is a full grown adult who can and should be able to take care himself, his behavior seems to be that of a spoilt child.

I've seen married couples grow and show up for each other, but the husband had to really want to show up for their wife for the relationship to improve. In relationships where the husband was constantly still being selfish, it never got better. Either the wife left or she gave up and accepted that her husband would always be lazy and sit back as his wife-mommy continued to take care of him.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yes, he absolutely does the weaponized incompetence thing. This is a man with a background in STEM, who holds down a challenging job that requires a lot of focus and memorization. This same man acts differently at home, and frequently claims not to be able to solve basic household problems, or remember how to do certain tasks. He clings very firmly to this belief that he cannot clean a bathroom because he doesn't know how, or that he can't recall how to do ABC in order until I confront him very bluntly and ask him who stands over his shoulder and tells him what to do at work? When he's playing computer games that require him to collect X and Y before accomplishing Z, how does he remember how to do that?

Then he feels embarrassed and will reluctantly drag himself to Youtube or look stuff up and do the task. But it will happen again and again, because there's always some other tiny obstacle that he'll exaggerate as some impossible barrier to him doing household chores that I do every day, multiple times a day. He claims he doesn't want to be this way, and gets mad when I say that clearly he DOES, because if it truly bothered him, he'd just figure it out and do it without making a bunch of insulting, flimsy excuses.

This upsets him, because he can't get out of that logic, but he wants there to be an explanation for his sudden mental confusion about cleaning that isn't his fault. There isn't one. He keeps looking for one. I despise this kind of laziness and weakness.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

One thing I learned from my failed long-term relationship (and is apparently also backed by many relationship experts) is that once a relationship reaches the contempt phase, it's unsalvageble. The rest is fumes of what used to be/sunk cost fallacy/fear of loss.

I really wish I'd known/believed that sooner, because if I had, the relationship would have ended about a decade before it actually did. You don't love someone you feel contempt for. You can't. And you'll never get over hearing someone express contempt for you, either, so it doesn't matter whose side it's on.

Love isn't a feeling: it's a continuous action. Someone who would do some pie-in-the-sky heroic one-off action for you (like give you a kidney) but who would not listen to you gripe about something if you asked, or would not pick up after themselves if they knew it was upsetting you, or who would not make dinner while you were sick does not love you. They have an attachment to you, a feeling, something that emotionally satisfies them but is utterly worthless to you if it does not motivate them to any action.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

+100000000

This, this, and this.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, I've heard the same thing. That's another reason why I don't think counseling would help. I do feel contempt for him. I don't respect him like I used to, because his behavior has been so inconsiderate and selfish. He's shown me repeatedly that he doesn't care about my feelings (while swearing up and down that he does) so long as not caring saves him a tiny bit of effort in thinking. But he refuses to see that this is not the act of a loving partner. He totally denies that this is a slap in the face, because he's determined to keep thinking of it as a tiny little problem that I'm overreacting to.

I've given up, to be honest. He's my roommate, and not a very good one at that. It'll just take some time to formulate my exit strategy, but I'm not willing to exhaust myself further to try and save this marriage when he only pays lip service to the idea.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yeah, contempt is one of the things that a counselor is going to look for as a sign that a relationship cannot-- or SHOULD not-- be saved. It's not impossible to come back from, but it just might not be worth it.


Like, I've got ADHD and there are things that I let pile up and ways that I'm not a good roommate, which I recognize has a lot of overlap with weaponized incompetence in terms of the *effect*-- I've NEVER just straight up not flushed a toilet and left that for someone else to deal with! I try to find ways that I can make life better for the people I live with to make up for the ways I'm consistently a mess, whether it's volunteering to handle dinner, or jumping in to take the trash out to the bins when someone else brings up that it's trash day (or just that it's full and needs to go out), or just asking if anyone needs anything from the kitchen as long as I'm going, or if I can take someone's laundry when I'm doing mine or pick up something when I have to go to the store. Like, there are men who leave messes around or don't notice when daily tasks need to be done every day who aren't malicious assholes, just mentally ill, but if they actually care about doing better, THEY CAN STILL FIND WAYS TO DO BETTER, whether it's to make life easier on a wife, a friend, their actual mother...

And when they don't do ANY of that, then yeah, an exit strategy is the best strategy.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

I want to print this out and staple it to the forehead of every man between the ages of 15 and 55.

I hate so much how he's unloaded all of his thinking onto you (how do I clothe/feed/clean myself? Who cares, wife will tell me) but won't listen to your thoughts.

Marriage counseling might help. Hearing from an "outsider" that he needs to shape up might light a fire under him. But you have to decide if you'd want to be with him even *after* this potential improvement occurs. It doesn't sound like you trust him, it doesn't sound like you feel loved or held or cared for.

I don't know your situation, but I hope you can forgive yourself. I hope you can internalize that this isn't your failure, it's his.

Leaving isn't impossible. My aunt, whom I love very much, had a whole extra marriage that I didn't know about because it was so bad (and I was 4. To be clear I knew she had two because of my cousins, I didn't know about the third) and she left within a year. She told us how she had this nightmare about wading through shit up to her knees, then waist, then neck, but she knew she had to get through it. Another story she told was about going to counseling during the divorce and doing a "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" drawing exercise and she drew herself as a stick figure sitting on her porch drinking tea. And you better believe she has a porch and chairs and tea now.

Again, I don't know you or your situation I just really hope, one human being to another, that you are able to wade through this shit and reach the otherside where a nice glass of iced tea is waiting.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

It's been incredibly heartwarming to hear from other people who get it, rather than people who tell me that I'm being too hard on my poor husband by expecting him to have basic adulting skills and take responsibility for his actions. I'm also really encouraged because I think more a lot more women are aware of issues like this now. More women are on their guard and value their peace and themselves, so hopefully they won't end up in a sunk cost fallacy marriage.

I love that your aunt got out, and that she has her porch to sit on and iced tea to sip. I want that for all women who are in similar situations: peace, freedom and your own space to be happy.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

And health, too. Don't underestimate health. I lost mine in the course of decades of walking on eggshells, of being less than. I've never got it back.

But you are the architect of your future, anon. No-one else. You have to decide what you want for your future.

Re: Venting thread- I've been struggling not to hate my husband.

[(Anonymous)]

As someone who isn't a fan of generalizations... you are definitely NOT being too hard on your husband. As mentioned further upthread, marriage is an equal partnership. I don't understand people who just jump into these things and then use it as a way to regress as an adult. And I don't understand why he's shutting down conversation about it; communication is also part of being an adult and part of being in a relationship.