[ SECRET POST #1464 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1464 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 108 secrets from Secret Submission Post #209.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

Therefore it is worth investigating more.

Look, rape is rape.

Deciding one week after havin sex that you regret it, is not rape.

A woman who had sex with a man, and then regrets it because a condom tore, or it turned out to be shitty, violent sex AFTER the fact is not rape.

Realizing it has "gone too far" while you were willingly participating in heavy forplay, is not rape unless you made clear to the guy at the point it "went too far" that it was unwanted.

If I start undressing a man and stroke him in private places, it's not *unreasonable* of that man to think that sex is acceptable.
Of course he should stop if I say no and change my mind (though that would make me one hell of a bitch), but if at no point "no" was uttered, he has no reason to believe it was unwanted.

For it to be rape, it has to be rather clear to the other party that sex is not wanted. Yes-but-no-but-yes is not rape.

A woman who reaches foe a condom, can quite easily be perceived as a woman who does want sex.

In neither case, did it strike me as any of the women actually vocally stating no.

Rather, after swapping stories, they decided he was a shithead.

Which he might be, but being a sexist shithead still does not equal bing a rapist.

[meran-flash.livejournal.com]

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html

The amount of rape apologism in your comment would be staggering if it weren't terrifyingly common.

[antler-action.livejournal.com]

Her account to police, which Assange disputes, stated that he began stroking her leg as they drank tea, before he pulled off her clothes and snapped a necklace that she was wearing. According to her statement she "tried to put on some articles of clothing as it was going too quickly and uncomfortably but Assange ripped them off again". Miss A told police that she didn't want to go any further "but that it was too late to stop Assange as she had gone along with it so far", and so she allowed him to undress her.

According to the statement, Miss A then realised he was trying to have unprotected sex with her. She told police that she had tried a number of times to reach for a condom but Assange had stopped her by holding her arms and pinning her legs.

Forcing sex on a woman who attempts to stop you but then gives up, figuring it's hopeless, is rape. Forcing a woman who has "agreed" to sex with you to have a type of sex she does not want is also rape.

Early the next morning, Miss W told police, she had gone to buy breakfast before getting back into bed and falling asleep beside Assange. She had awoken to find him having sex with her, she said, but when she asked whether he was wearing a condom he said no.

Having sex with someone in their sleep is also rape, even if they have previously had consensual sex with you.

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

Let me rephrase that with other BOLD fonts.

Her account to police, which Assange disputes, stated that he began stroking her leg as they drank tea, before he pulled off her clothes and snapped a necklace that she was wearing. According to her statement she "tried to put on some articles of clothing as it was going too quickly and uncomfortably but Assange ripped them off again". Miss A told police that she didn't want to go any further "but that it was too late to stop Assange as she had gone along with it so far", and so she allowed him to undress her.

So yes, while he is clearly moving too fast, she *allowed* him to undress her. She told the POLICE she didn't want to go any further, but not Assange, from what I can see.

According to the statement, Miss A then realised he was trying to have unprotected sex with her. She told police that she had tried a number of times to reach for a condom but Assange had stopped her by holding her arms and pinning her legs.

Yet she was moving for a condom, which can be perceived as wanting to have sex, and again,she doesn't say "get off me, asshole". A condom he did in fact use, from what both of them say, but the thing tore.

Forcing sex on a woman who attempts to stop you but then gives up, figuring it's hopeless, is rape. Forcing a woman who has "agreed" to sex with you to have a type of sex she does not want is also rape.

Early the next morning, Miss W told police, she had gone to buy breakfast before getting back into bed and falling asleep beside Assange. She had awoken to find him having sex with her, she said, but when she asked whether he was wearing a condom he said no.

Yet she is in bed with this man who has a history not wanting to use condoms, and she has had sex with EARLIER that night/-. seriously, I'm not quite sure hich of the two stories is more mind-boggling!

Having sex with someone in their sleep is also rape, even if they have previously had consensual sex with you.

And having sleepy sex is not per definition rape, no...

[meran-flash.livejournal.com]

http://www.fugitivus.net/2010/12/22/dear-second-and-third-wave-feminists-with-publicly-recognizable-names/

Seriously, your ideas are dangerous and contribute to a greater culture that results primarily in the victimization of women.

[antler-action.livejournal.com]

The parts you bolded completely ignore his violent actions, though. Even if she had at that point consented to sex (my opinion is that she was coerced at the very least), the fact remains that he held her down and prevented her from reaching the condom, without which she did not want to have sex. If she had specifically consented to vaginal sex and he instead purposely penetrated her anally without getting her to consent to the switch, that would be rape, even though she had consented to another type of sex. He forced a type of sex on her that she was not willing to have. That is the definition of rape.

Yet she was moving for a condom, which can be perceived as wanting to have sex, and again,she doesn't say "get off me, asshole".

This in particular is a very dangerous sentiment. A woman doesn't have to have protested out loud to have been raped. They may be scared, they may feel it won't do any good, they may even feel guilty about denying their rapist sex even if they're upset and want to stop.

I suspect your argument will be, "Well, then how is the man supposed to know she doesn't want it?" My answer to that is that if he had to force her into any part of it, he can probably assume that she doesn't want it.

Also, "sleepy sex" does not accurately describe the incident with Miss W. He penetrated her in her sleep without her knowledge or consent. That's very different from a couple agreeing in advance that it's okay to wake each other up with sexual acts.

[(Anonymous)]

"And having sleepy sex is not per definition rape, no..."

But it is rape if one of the partners is ASLEEP, not just sleepy. Being asleep = being unconscious. You can't say yes or no. The other partner is using your unconscious body for a sexual act = rape.

:/
I always thought you were one of the intelligent people here.

[(Anonymous)]

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU FUCKING RAPE APOLOGIST MISOGYNIST SHITHOLE

[oflittlebrain.livejournal.com]

this is a good comment and you should feel good

certainly the motivations behind this may seem sketchy but no one should argue that the circumstances described by the women were not in fact rape. :/

[(Anonymous)]

Deciding one week after havin sex that you regret it, is not rape.

So you think the statue of limitations on sexual assault should be less than a week??

I work with cops who do nothing but investigate this shit, and reports can come in years after the fact. That means jack shit. Also, news flash, most rapes are not the back alley, stranger types. Most are committed by acquaintances and women are fucking confused about what just happened. That doesn't make it any less a crime.

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

Ehm, no.

And you are deliberately twisting my words.

I'm saying that for it to be rape, non-consent has to be expressed at the time of the sexual act.

Having sex with someone seemingly willingly, pondering over it for a week, and THEN deciding it's something you regret for whichever reason is not rape.


I'm not saying that that is actually true in this case, I'm saying there's a difference between a woman being raped and a woman having shitty sex and deciding to punish the guy for it AFTER the facts.

[(Anonymous)]

Here's a wild thought:

Maybe it was shitty because it was rape.

[meran-flash.livejournal.com]

I'm saying that for it to be rape, non-consent has to be expressed at the time of the sexual act.

NO.

ALL THAT IS REQUIRED FOR RAPE IS FOR A SEX ACT TO TAKE PLACE WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF ALL PARTIES INVOLVED.

[(Anonymous)]

The only thing that should be PERCEIVED as meaning that a woman wants sex is a woman saying, "Let's have sex."

THAT'S IT.

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

Seriously, I think some of you never had sex...

[(Anonymous)]

go away

[bloodparade.livejournal.com]

...

So, if someone doesn't actively consent to sex, that's ok in your mind?

GTFO.

[(Anonymous)]

So what about people who HAVE had sex and think you're full of shit?

this is probably really triggery

[(Anonymous)]

Hey. Hey you.

Meran is a douchebag. And enormous one. I was agreeing with them until I realized "actually, no, they are a douchebag". But the only wrong thing they said is Julian Assange is a rapist and stating it as fact. You have a very, VERY poor concept of rape.

-Rape is when you want to have sex, but only with a condom, and your partner forces you to have sex without one even though you don't want to.
-Rape is when you're intimidated by your partner to have sex, and he's bigger and stronger and you're just so scared of what happens if you say no that you just go along with it.
-Rape is when this guy you're not into keeps begging for it, just one time, just one time, and you finally get coerced into it, and he does his thing, and you just end up with a bad taste in your mouth even if the sex was okay. (this one is a variant called coercion. You never wanted to, you never did, but you just wanted to stop being bothered.)
-Rape is when you're not enjoying the sex, and you decide maybe you should just do something else, but your partner isn't stopping even if you keep saying no, let's not do this, I'm just not into it. Even if you succeed, well you're just a frigid bitch now aren't you! (this is apparently the only thing you think is rape.)

Women rarely get their rape cases taken, because douchebags like you who dismiss anything but black and white consent, because it shouldn't be called rape if she just ~can't make up her mind~, right?

If you do not receive clear consent, it is probably rape! Clear consent can be in simple body language, like how being slightly upset and not pleased by the sex is a pretty clear "I'm not really liking this". Which is when you should stop and ask if they're okay with it, because WOW MAYBE YOU ARE ACTUALLY RAPING THEM.

IF YOU ARE NOT ENJOYING THE SEX, WANT TO STOP, BUT CANNOT FOR ANY REASON RELATED TO YOUR PARTNER, IT IS PROBABLY* RAPE. YOUR PARTNER DOES NOT HAVE TO BE MADE AWARE OF YOUR RAPING FOR IT TO BE RAPE. EVEN IF YOU'RE SAYING YES.
*Personally I think that if you want your partner to have a good time and have no issue with continuing despite your displeasure, it's not rape, but that is only my personal opinion and does not reflect on the thoughts of those who think otherwise.

Being a sexist shithead does not make him a rapist. Hey may not a rapist. He may have unintentionally raped a woman because he figured it was fine because she didn't say no. It's a lot more complicated than what you're implying.

Fucking hell.

Re: this is probably really triggery

[(Anonymous)]

This is a very good comment but it's unfortunately wasted on this stupid sexist shitfuck

Re: this is probably really triggery

[kallanda-lee.livejournal.com]

I agree that my description might be limited, as is often the case with the type of fora.

But just looking at your bold text:


IF YOU ARE NOT ENJOYING THE SEX, WANT TO STOP, BUT CANNOT FOR ANY REASON RELATED TO YOUR PARTNER, IT IS PROBABLY* RAPE. YOUR PARTNER DOES NOT HAVE TO BE MADE AWARE OF YOUR RAPING FOR IT TO BE RAPE. EVEN IF YOU'RE SAYING YES.

Do you honestly think men should be convicted of rape in this particular case? Even if you consider it to be rape? The had absolutely NO way of knowing, which means, that every man ever participating is sex is y definition screwed, because they can get locked up for rape without having any reason to believe they did anything wrong whatsoever.

Re: this is probably really triggery

[(Anonymous)]

Do you not get that this is why the concept of enthusiastic consent is so important? I mean, leaving aside the fact that most men who rape know what they are doing and guys who *genuinely did not realize somehow* that they raped someone are a tiny minority (I mean, who fucking misreads body language so badly that they think someone passed-out drunk, or someone lying there shaking or crying, is genuinely consenting?), encouraging men and women to get enthusiastic consent before proceeding with further sexual activity means that guys are less likely to be put in a position of thinking "she was okay with it" because she didn't specifically say no. I mean, it doesn't even have to be some clinical "is this specific act okay", you can turn it into dirty talk, or ask what they want you to do to/with them, etc.

I just... seriously don't get how you can complain about the poor men who don't know they are raping someone and yet belittle the enthusiastic consent movement. If everyone got enthusiastic consent, the few genuinely clueless men out there would *never have to be put in that position*....

[bloodparade.livejournal.com]

No.

Hope u ded.

[(Anonymous)]

lol yes

[bloodparade.livejournal.com]

:3