[ SECRET POST #2947 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2947 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Sorry, still at work again.

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 028 secrets from Secret Submission Post #421.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

07. http://i.imgur.com/lcz8VUZ.png

[(Anonymous)]

The beauty of self-fulfilling prophecies.

[(Anonymous)]

Or because the more prominent a female character is, the harsher fandom is on her. Uhura's the closest the movies (and TOS for that matter) have to a female lead, while the blonde... what was her name again?

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't seen the movies, but there's a big difference between Uhura's importance to the franchise and Carol Marcus's importance.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I feel like fandom also just doesn't care about Carol Marcus enough as a character. Hardly see anything in fandom about her, either positive or negative.

[(Anonymous)]

The thing that bugged me about the way Uhura was written was that she started a whiny convo with her "boyfriend" in the middle of a mission. For me that has nothing to with color; it has to do with the character being badly written in that scene.

Really, although there might be people shallow/bigoted enough to look at a character and say, "Oh a white character, I will automatically love everything they do!" not everyone does this.

Really, they don't.

[(Anonymous)]

probably a troll but whatever. Uhura was featured more and had a bigger role in the series. Carol Marcus was more of a plot device than an actual character. There's only so much to complain about with her. The most memorable part about her is that she was unnecessarily in her underwear in one scene and that she was Captain Marcus' daughter; she was pretty boring. Carol Marcus was a much more engaging character in Wrath of Khan

[(Anonymous)]

Uhura was a more important character who was in both movies, whereas Marcus was only in the movie that everyone hates. Also Uhura is in relevant ships whereas Marcus is not.

Also, though, just personally, Alice Eve (and particularly as Marcus) is one of those people where every time you see them you just go "Good lord that person is pretty."

[kallanda_lee]

Only it proves exactly zero, because they're different characters.

For one, original Uhura is much loved, so deviations and different interpretations of her character will be default generate criticism.

Secondly there is the relationship with Spock that is controversial because a) it's not in original canon and b) given who Spock is, ANY attempt to couple him up will be controversial.


Carol - I actually had to google her name - is less criticized because she's more forgettable.

[ninety6tears]

Really cause there are definitely some people who are overly critical of Carol? But then other factors need to be considered, like petty Kirk/McCoy shippers vs. petty Kirk/Spock shippers, or pickiness about characterization. (Don't get me wrong, there have been racism problems in the fandom for sure regardless of whether you can prove this double standard.)

[(Anonymous)]

I found Uhura and Carol both to be written pretty generically in these movies. Wait actually I found everyone to be written very generically in these movies. They were caricatures of themselves. Except maybe Bones.

[(Anonymous)]

Fandom can definitely be racist but I think a lot of people are bringing up good points about Uhura (that she's more prominent and that she "gets in the way" of popular slash ships, which we all know is the true way you get a female character hated in fandom.)

Uhura also at least has fans, from everything I've seen people either don't care about Carol or don't like her at all.

I don't think the movies have been great for women at all. Let's just be over this and do a new Trek series (not a reboot, a NEW one.)

[(Anonymous)]

I think they're both written like shit, so...

Transcript

[(Anonymous)]

Image: Carol Marcus and Nyota Uhura from Star Trek: Into Darkness

Text: They won’t admit it, but the fact that fandom hasn’t been nearly as harsh, critical, and cruel with her [Marcus] as they have with her [Uhura] proves to me, again and again, just how racist they really are.

[lady_songsmith]

Orrrr it could be because expectations for the character of Uhura were high, and what we got was fairly pathetic, while the expectations for the character of Carol Marcus were pretty well in the basement already, and we got exactly what we expected.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not in this fandom, but mostly I've heard a few people say they didn't like new!Uhura because she's written badly and a whole lot of other people screaming, "IF YOU DON'T LIKE HER, YOU'RE A RACIST!"

Personally, I don't really like her, but I also don't like any of the new crew save for McCoy and Chekov.

[were_lemur]

Maybe I hang around in different fandom circles than you, but I see more "GAH, Uhura is supposed to be this awesome character but the writers fucked her up!*" than anything else.

Which doesn't mean that there aren't some people out there who criticize her more harshly because of her race. American culture is more critical of black women than it is of white woman, so it would be surprising if that attitude didn't carry over into fannish discussions.

But it's one of a lot of different factors, including the fact that Uhura is a lot more of a prominent character, and the fact that her relationship with Spock puts her in direct ship-to-ship conflict with K/S shippers.

*A statement that I am in wholehearted agreement with. (Really? You thought it would be a good idea to have her insist on discussing her relationship with Spock during a life-or-death mission, in the presence of their CO? What the hell, Orci?)

[(Anonymous)]

Eh, most of the hate seems to be about the Uhura/Spock romance. Plus Uhura is a much more prominent character. That blond girl hasn't made much of an impression yet.

[(Anonymous)]

Uhura is a beloved character and the reboot changes brought some criticism upon her, same thing with Spock really. In the original version there was no romance between them so a lot of people feel it's out of place for both their characters. I've actually seen a lot more criticism towards Spock for being too human in the reboot.

With Carol they haven't really done much with her character to really say anything. Also she is not part of the iconic crew that a lot of fans already have an established image they are fond of.

[4thofeleven]

...but there's nothing to be critical of! It's like being critical of the muppet thing that hangs around with Scotty! What are you going to criticize?! “Oh, I don’t like how he sits there and doesn’t do or say anything! Man, in that one scene, where he contributes nothing, that was… that was a thing, huh?"

[(Anonymous)]

Whatever.

[(Anonymous)]

Uh, wasn't it because she's a relatively minor character compared to Uhura, which is a member of the main cast and a fan favorite?

[ketita]

See the funny thing is that I didn't even remember who the blonde chick was, at first. So obviously I wouldn't have any feelings about her...
While I agree that there can be racial bias, Uhura is a *much* more important character, with a lot of history behind her. So it makes sense that people would have stronger feelings about her. I know that I personally wish she had been more awesome... I don't hate her, but I don't like what was done with her.

[(Anonymous)]

The hate Uhura gets is so damn ridiculous
I agree there is dfouble standard but that's because Carol isn't in a canon romance with their favorites and Spock isn't in love with her.
wait for when kirk shows a bit of emotion for her and feminists will cry about her failing as a woman because she has a relationship with kirk all the while they ship kirtk/spock and bones/carol.

[(Anonymous)]

That's because Uhura stole Spock from Kirk (and Mccoy and Chapel, just to cover all the ships here) and since she's a beloved iconic character people can pretend that they angry because she is written bad while original uhura is such a well developed character why can't the new movies write her with the same racist and sexist standards of the 60s how dare them make her more than the token black girl? Why can't we go back to when we didn't even know her first name and her being a linguist was fanon? Why can't we go back to when the kirk/uhura kiss was groundbreaking and so so lovely even if both of them were forced to kiss against their will?
Why can't we go back to when she used a dictionary to speak klingon or was referred to as charming negress or got almost raped or got slapped or was dancing nude by the moon to distract the bad guys while the male characters did their thing to save the day?