[ SECRET POST #3094 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3094 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 020 secrets from Secret Submission Post #442.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 2 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. http://i.imgur.com/BN5D9LF.png

[(Anonymous)]

I am, honestly, completely and totally fine with Steve being written as basically flawless and Mary Sue-ish. It doesn't bother me at all. Hell, I like it.

[(Anonymous)]

It's why he's kind of bland, tho. Nothing to hang onto.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

It would be dull if every character were perfect, but I enjoy the odd flawless character.

[iggy]

Same. It's nice to have someone to genuinely look up to.

(and he's totally not bland.)

[(Anonymous)]

While I think he has flaws, I'm never annoyed by them (unlike with other characters) and I think I would easily forgive them anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree and can't like Superman for the same reasons

I want to like them both but neither are relatable to me, as almost all the personal issues they face are ones manufactured by outside factors as opposed to flaws of their own and generally end up not being their fault

The only way I can like characters like Batman is when the story remembers how fucked up Batman is and does nod to how his issues come from within himself and his inability to get over his parents' death. It's tedious and the guy is crazy for holding onto it for so long but at least it's a flaw in the genius rich amazing wonderful godmode

[(Anonymous)]

I don't understand this, at all, and in general I honestly find good characters really fascinating and I think they can absolutely lead to compelling, even gripping, drama.

I mean, as a general rule, I would say that moral dilemmas are *most* interesting when the character who's dealing with them is basically good.

[philstar22]

Do you need to relate to characters to like them? There are lots of characters that I don't relate to at all but still like because I find them interesting.

Although, actually, I'd say if anything I relate more to Steve's niceness and his ptsd than I do to say Tony or Thor or Natasha.

[(Anonymous)]

I have that problem with Superman, but I totally love Steve. Though, thinking about it, I think it's more that I like him because of his relationships with the other characters (like Peggy, Bucky, Natasha, Sam), rather than just liking him on his own.

So I'm pretty sure that if his movies didn't have great side characters, I'd find him bland, too!

[(Anonymous)]

He's stubborn. Self-righteous. He can be naive. Too trustworthy. He looks before he jumps. He is a thrill seeker/adrenaline junky.

[(Anonymous)]

Not OP

Too trustworthy and naive can be attributed to the frozen for decades or being from another era thing. "Stubborn" is a classic Mary Sue trait, and so is self-righteousness... unfortunately due to Plot Armor Cap usually turns out to be right in the end so all is well. Aside from Civil War but really that whole thing was a mess all over

[comradesmiler]

He is a thrill seeker/adrenaline junky.
That's not a flaw.

[(Anonymous)]

his flaws are a lot more evident in the comics (well, depending on the writer that is). he can be very self-righteous, patronizing, and occasionally very quick to judge. still an overall good dude and interesting character (although some people obviously debate the "interesting" part), but a bit more flawed than in the movies so far. that said, he does tend to portrayed in a better light than most other characters so you have a point there. generally if captain america picks a side in a conflict, the implication is that the reader should be on that side as well (except in civil war where tony was apparently right somehow because that's how quesada wanted it. even then though, other writers shat all over tony for it after the main arc)

He's not flawless.

[(Anonymous)]

Though, sometimes, the narrative doesn't treat those flaws as flaws.

He can be short-tempered, single-minded to the point of obliviousness, stubborn, he only follows orders when he doesn't have any real objection to them (which actually makes him a bad soldier), he was perfectly fine committing fraud when it served his purposes, he can get arrogant when he's wrong-footed or unsure, he can be self-righteous and fool-hardy.

And, yeah, he also has a long list of virtues that tend to outshine these flaws in a lot of the presented situations. I think he's a pretty good character.

Re: He's not flawless.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd love to see him treated as a bad soldier by the narrative for once god

There are so many, many ways that Cap could go wrong and so much potential there, but the writers mostly don't let him, so he turns out to be right in the end and his flaws are forgiven :(

Re: He's not flawless.

[(Anonymous)]

He's not a soldier. He's a superhero.

Project: Rebirth was attempting to create a perfect soldier, and just as movie-Erskine predicted, they failed. Instead, they accidentally invented something new.

[(Anonymous)]

I would LOVE to see MCU Captain LAMErica end up being wrong about something. Not a "mistake he was misled into" or "he could have been right in this case because reasons" or some other Gary-Stu bullshit, but completely and unmistakeably WRONG.

I think it would be a GREAT parallel to how America and Cap's fanboys see themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

I would hate to see that. I would distinctly not enjoy it.

[(Anonymous)]

You mean wrong about how he was wrong about Tony? In the first Avengers? Do you remember that? It was a thing.

[(Anonymous)]

lmao, lamerica...really? come on man

OP here

[(Anonymous)]

I see a lot of people listing bad traits -- and while I agree with a lot of those, I think the main thrust of my problem with how Steve is handled is that those negative traits are never really woven into the narrative.

For example, there's a scene early on with Bucky where Steve says "Don't win the war til I get there." and I remember it kind of pissed me off. Now, I know that Steve probably doesn't LITERALLY mean it that way. But my grandmother was a little girl in Western Europe at this time. And she was literally STARVING. And I just found it to be such a selfish and dismissive thing of him to say.

And I feel like it would be interesting if the movies capitalized on that a bit -- where Steve lets his desire to be the hero or be right get in the way of helping people or relieving their suffering.

Now, there ARE things I want to avoid (PLEASE, for the love of god, can we NOT have Tony be the one to ~prove him wrong~). But something I think would be really interesting would be to have, say, Natasha, use means that Steve doesn't agree with and saving lives whereas he lets people get hurt because he won't get his hands dirty the way she will. Stuff like that -- moral gray areas.

[(Anonymous)]

Steve has a ton of flaws (Self-righteous; giant hypocrite; guilt-trip happy; stubborn) but the narrative seldom acknowledges them. This is a pain as a Cap fan because it ends up with a lot of OOC crap in the fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

I wish he'd have more flaws, because as he is now I find him boring. So, so boring. But of course, someone with "America" in their name has to be the most perfect and flawless hero ever, so I guess that's too much to hope for.

But I have a feeling he'll be killed off in the MCU soon, and then I'll probably still be sad.

[solticisekf]

Honestly he has so many flaws I can't even with this secret.