[ SECRET POST #1930 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1930 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 110 secrets from Secret Submission Post #276.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

02. http://i43.tinypic.com/2e4xbow.png

[got_swagger]

...

[writerserenyty.livejournal.com]

I like Rose and I dislike River. However, those facts are completely disconnected. I don't think that Rose is the Doctor's only love ever.

I think that ultimately Rose's journey is a very fulfilling and interesting one, where she learns how to become a better person, that she's meant for more and ultimately is quite interesting. River, on the other hand, decided her job because of a man and I never found her arc that interesting.

Also, I prefer RTD's writing/showrunning over Moffat's, any day.

[murderershair.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you keep on with your delusions there. It's not like she's a poorly developed abrasive personality or anything. (Not that I don't like some characters with abrasive personalities, but I don't take it personally when people disagree with me)

[nivella.livejournal.com]

Doctor kissy faces for all!



Seriously though, River is ♥ Haters gonna hate etc.

[elica.livejournal.com]

I love both, girls and pairings. So...

[(Anonymous)]

I think a lot of people who hate on River would love the character if she were male. Damn the Patriarchy!

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Mostly, I find both sides of this debate irritating. I like River and I like Rose. I ship River with the Doctor, but I don't ship Rose with the Doctor. But I think that both sides talk about their opinion on various characters and ships like they are objective rather than the opinions that they are. Neither River nor Rose are objectively badly written. Neither are they objectively well written.

Also, I'm not a classic Who fan, but I'm one of those who thinks that the Doctor isn't really capable, at least so far, of what we human's think of as being in love. I ship him with several people in fanon, but in canon I don't think he actually was in love with either Rose or River. I think he had feelings for both of them, was attracted to both of them, and mourned the loss of both of them. But I don't think he ever quite reached the level of being in love.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm certain her biggest fans are those who obsessively hate on the Doctor with Rose.

I cannot stand those rabid River fans who won't accept the Doctor could love someone else.


I have no problem with classic Who fans though. You're welcome.

[fenm.livejournal.com]

Just FYI, there's a difference between a character being capable of love, and that character having romantic relationships.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't like River... but I don't see her as a threat to Doctor/Rose ship, either.

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

I like River's personality and I think she's a fun character.

But her entire story is one huge clusterfuck and her relationship with the Doctor is really skeevy to me.

And that opinion is not based on the fact that I ship the Doctor and Rose but rather it's based on the fact that River's entire life was built around the Doctor and she was raised to be obsessed with him. She never really had any choice in her life and it creeps me the fuck out.

[(Anonymous)]

Careful with that generalisation there. You're liable to shoot someone's eye out.

For the record, I am not fond of 11/River because I don't like the out-of-order aspect to the romance. The Doctor's first experience with River was learning that she died for him -- given the guilt complex the NuWho Doctor has, that sets him up to feel obligated to have a relationship with her. On River's side, her whole life set her up to fixate on him. It's an interesting story, but it makes me uncomfortable shipping them.

[azure15.livejournal.com]

While I eventually came around to the idea of Doctor/Rose, I didn't care for it during my first viewing. Even now I'm not obsessed with it, I like it and think it's actually quite cute, but I wouldn't even call myself a fan of the pairing. It's there, and I like it, and that's all there is to it.

Still can't stand River. There's sharing the spotlight with the main character, and then there's hogging it completely. River has far too much compacted into one character, and for me, it doesn't work. She's not "complex" or "interesting" she's a list of clichés that spoil what was once quite a bad ass character.

Rose, Martha, Donna and Amy worked because they were normal women who ended up having a bigger destiny. We can relate to them in one way or another because they're like us. But in the end they're human, and they're flawed. And River looked as if she was shaping up to be another bad ass normal on her first appearance, but then of course to be the Doctor's "equal" she has to be made ridiculously special.

She's half Time Lord.
She's the only one to know the Doctor's real name.
She's got an oh so angsty past.
She managed to grow up with her parents as a self insert best friend.
She can fly the TARDIS properly.
She can fight and shoot guns and it's okay because it's RIVER. (It's not like the Doctor ever froze out his own daughter for doing the same, OH WAIT-)
She can apparently give up the rest of her regenerations to save the Doctor's life.

It's just too much for one character, and it put me off her completely. Say what you want about Rose being special, she at least remained a down to earth girl despite what she ended up becoming, and the Doctor knew when to reprimand her. 11 just seems to beam at River and clap happily at whatever she ends up doing. Most of River's establishing scenes seem to be "oh look at River, isn't she so funny/witty/amazing?"

[(Anonymous)]

I don't ship anyone on that show nor do I have an opinion on the Doctor's lovin'.

I still didn't care for her in anything that she did outside her introductory episode. The dislike might have something to do with how the writers irritatingly continued trying to set the character up as some dull, action heroine without knowing how to write that. Not everything revolves around ship.

[lit-wolf.livejournal.com]

Me personally, I'm a huge fan of Doctor/Rose. Like majorly so. But I like River! And I even like River/Doctor!

Diff strokes for diff folks, but haters will always hate, no matter what reason you try to apply to them.

[maverickz3r0]

Sometimes, people don't like characters you like. (Often, even.)

That doesn't mean they like characters you don't like. It doesn't mean they all have anything in common aside from not liking a character you like. You really don't have to make stuff up even, I'm sure people who are in the fandom could tell you why they don't like her.

As for 'shipping leading to bashing rival 'ship characters...well, duh. What are you, new?

[(Anonymous)]

I really have no problem with River, but most aspects of her relationship with the Doctor irk me in ways that Rose and Ten never did.
Was anyone else creeped out by the whole 'Okay, fine- FINE. If I marry you, will you stop the universe from imploding? GAH. We're married now, so knock it off wife'. A hurried Timelord wedding for the loveofgodweneedtosavetheuniverse. River's personality aside, the effed up backwards and sideways nature of their courtship aside- River and Doctor fans: Are you okay with how that went down? This had the potential to be a very very romantic storyline, but instead it was canon forced and summarized and ended with what felt like a coerced plot-point wedding? That sucks for you guys! Feel bad about that. In the Rose and Doctor camp, the people who ignore how disturbing the whole grow-your-own-Doctor replacement was.. Geeze, all you shippers deserve better. I'm so serious.

[(Anonymous)]

So, we're allowed to dislike her simply because she's a badly written Mary-Sue? Thank you, OP!

[(Anonymous)]

I started watching with Eleven and had to go back and begin watching from Nine later.

So I hated River long before I even knew who Rose was.

Oops.

[mfirefly10.livejournal.com]

I love River and River/Doctor, despite the many problematic aspects of her character arc/their relationship. That being said, I don't give a flying frak if people disagree, as long as they're not assholes about it (which many people are, but I don't think that's specific to any particular group of fans/shippers.)

And though I never shipped Rose and the Doctor romantically, I loved their friendship and thought Rose was awesome. As were Martha and Donna. And Rory and Mickey. And pretty much every Nu!Who companion that's been introduced thus far. (Except Jack, though he didn't really bother me in his series 1 and 3 episodes. Mostly because Rose and Martha made him somewhat tolerable :D)

[solo-by-choice.livejournal.com]

This again? Really? How are we not over this shit yet?

There are things about both women that I don't like, but overall I do enjoy both characters. I find Doctor/River to be a more interesting ship, but I'm certainly not going to judge you if you disagree. That said, could we please quit barfing "Rose is horrible and boring" or "River is too smug/smart/whatever" all over everything? No. She is NOT. The End.

(no but seriously WHY do people still care)

[agirlnamedtruth.livejournal.com]

Or maybe I just don't like her?

For many reasons, none of which involve Rose.

Can I not just be a hater and hate? :)

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I hate both her and Rose, so I guess that makes you wrong. (Actually, I'm pretty much purely a Classic!Who fan these days, since I can't stand much of anything from Ten onwards with the exception of the occasional character/serial.)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't like River because of how Moffat made her life revolve around the Doctor, and his inability to write women. I ship Doctor/Rose more so, but it isn't a major OTP or anything. Rose just felt more believable to me.