[ SECRET POST #1998 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1998 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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09.
[Peter Gabriel]


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]












10. [SPOILERS for the Hunger Games]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]













11. [WARNING for abuse]



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12. [WARNING for rape]

[Hetalia]


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13. [WARNING for abuse]



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14. [WARNING for gore, animal abuse]
http://i.imgur.com/SjfD3.jpg
[images of actual dead animals and stuff.]



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15. [WARNING for rape]

[Video Games Awesome Live]


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16. [WARNING for abuse]

[Avatar: the Last Airbender]


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17. [WARNING for rape]

[American Horror Story]


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18. [WARNING for dub-con, grooming, brainwashing]



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19. [WARNING FOR general discussion of triggery topics (there's bound to be triggering material in the comments)]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #285.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 (warning for rape) - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. [SPOILERS for the Hunger Games]
http://i47.tinypic.com/2up4vgy.jpg

[visiblemarket.livejournal.com]

I honestly don't believe that Collins is that subtle. Did you miss the literary analysis of "The Hanging Tree"? The fact that she spells out every damn thing ever in those book? Nah, not buying it. If that had been the case, I'd expect a little more revulsion/displeasure on Katniss's part when she was regarding the other people who voted in favor of the Capitol games, at the very least.

[(Anonymous)]

I kind of hate arguments like these. People complain about lack of subtlety, but when the subtlety is there, it apparently doesn't exist because it wasn't obvious enough.

[(Anonymous)]

It baffles me that people could come to that conclusion. I don't have the book on hand, but that entire segment is built around Katniss trying to silently communicate with Haymitch into securing his vote, thinking "now we'll see how alike we are", and feeling satisified when he agrees to the final Hunger Games.

The first time around it might genuinely fool you, but after she assassinates Coin without hesitation, it's very clear what was going on in that scene.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree completely. As for Collins not being "subtle" as said above, that's true but I didn't think it was all that subtle.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. Just from knowing who Katniss is, after three books, we know she would never be okay with the murder of children. ANY children, even Capitol children. That's just not who she is.

[avatarmn]

Why can't she be saying that "now we'll see how alike we are" meaning we're both vengeful?

[fuchsiascreams]

I don't have the book on hand, but that entire segment is built around Katniss trying to silently communicate with Haymitch into securing his vote, thinking "now we'll see how alike we are", and feeling satisified when he agrees to the final Hunger Games.

..so you think that this was because she had this secret upspoken plan to murder Coin and Haymitch and Johanna were telepathically in on it all along through what, subtle eye contact? And Peeta and the others weren't? Uh-huh. I mean, come on. Collins elaborated on fucking EVERYTHING in that book. I doubt she would leave out something as important as an assassination plot.

I think you guys are trying way too hard to explain away Katniss' "bad" actions so that she can be the perfect little female lead the most girl characters are in books. It's pretty obvious throughout the series that Katniss is not just imperfect, but deeply flawed, which is GREAT.

[(Anonymous)]

OP:

Yes. This. And I don't get how anyone could have missed that.

[(Anonymous)]

Not really. She considered it and wanted revenge. Peeta was pretty much the only character who can be understood as undeniably against it. Katniss is not one to make subtle, manipulative strategies. She just plain sucks at them.

[(Anonymous)]

Headcanon =/= canon, OP.

[streetcake]

I think it's Collins' fault that people came to that conclusion, not their own. :\

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I'm surprised anyone considered it. The whole part about her silent communications with Haymitch, saying "for Prim" (after JUST being convinced by Snow that Coin was responsible for Prim's death)... it seemed pretty obvious to me that she was plotting something. And when she shot Coin, it all made sense.

[cakemage.livejournal.com]

I concur. That's the immediate conclusion I came to when I read that scene. I thought she was trying to lull Coin into a false sense of security, into thinking that she was on her side. That's just my interpretation of the scene, though.

[unicornherds]

I think Katniss is kind of simple and prone to emotionally react without actually thinking. She has a very straight forward no-deep-thoughts way of thinking. I think originally she was all about revenge fucking everyone over and making them have the Capitol Hunger Games, and then later she realized some shit and found a better solution (which coincidentally was also a quick emotional reaction with immediate satisfaction for her).

One of the most frustrating things about those books is how little Katniss thinks about things. I realize this is a whole part of the exploring the consequences of growing up in that kind of culture and not being taught to think for yourself etc etc etc, still pretty frustrating to read.

[(Anonymous)]

It's been a while so I don't remember all the details or how my opinions have changed over time or with subsequent readings, but honestly, as awful as it is, I read it as Katniss wanting to have the Games once (not resurrect them as an ongoing thing). And I liked that reading. Katniss is a far-from-perfect, damaged character who just suffered tremendous losses and was never particularly one to make sensible/compassionate decisions even on a good day. It makes for a much more interesting and complex, if slightly disappointing, scenario to have her make a morally ambiguous (or even morally reprehensible) choice like that. YMMV.

[avocado_love]

Yeah, but after Coin died the Capital Hunger Games was still on, so...? They voted it in.

[violettomoe2.livejournal.com]

I can't really remember what my opinion was when I read it, but I wouldn't exactly blame one side completely. From what I remember (and granted, I've only read all three books once over a weekend) Katniss was just...different in Mockingjay. I didn't really understand her motivation or reasoning for half of the things she did in that book. After everything that happened, I would expect people to read into it as an internal dilemma or a terrible decision rather than "Well, she would NEVER do that!".

But I knew about the idea beforehand, so I can't comment assuredly on how obvious it was or not :/

[meadowphoenix]

So what I've gotten is that everyone was reading radically different books, and that's why this is a love it or hate it installation.

No Katniss is not different in that book. She's disturbed, but her principles don't ever change, so I don't know where people get that. She doesn't and has never wanted kids to die. Haymitch isn't the type of person to want that either, and he's always been able to read Katniss. There's no reason for Katniss to feel like she has to persuade Haymitch, if she really wanted the games to happen, because she would know Haymitch would never go for it.

I honestly don't know what was confusing about that book. I feel like people gloss more than they would like to admit.

[avatarmn]

The chief reason I find this theory to be unworkable, and I've never seen anyone else say this, is... Just why in the hell would her vote, whatever it was, make any difference to whether Katniss would have the chance to kill Coin? There's no reason whatsoever to think that if Coin didn't like her vote, Katniss wouldn't be allowed to execute Snow (and turn the arrow on Coin instead).

[i_paint_the_sky]

I have to agree with others that Katniss' reasoning for the decision is not exactly obvious. I think that under normal circumstances, she would certainly never vote for it but it was not under normal circumstances. At the same time, I could see it be her trying to buy time to figure things out, though given her less than stellar planning abilities I don't think the assassinating Coin idea could have been in her head at the time.

So really I think both sides have compelling arguments to make. It certainly is not clear cut and anyone who thinks otherwise probably shouldn't be the one judging reading comprehension.

[(Anonymous)]

I was really confused when everyone talked about how in Mockingjay Katniss had agreed to make a new Hunger Games with capitol children. I read the books a few years ago, and I realized I didn't remember that as a major thing because I had assumed that that actually wasn't going to happen. I assumed that that was just a false plan so she could get to President Coin, so I had remembered her killing the president but not the mechanism she chose to get to the president in the first place. YMMV though I guess.

[fuchsiascreams]

Clearly not, I mean. I feel like you have a very poor understanding of Katniss' character if you think she was keeping up this big clever ruse without even thinking about it.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know if I would argue that she was buying time to kill Coin. I think that it can very easily be read that she wanted to expose Coin for what she was, and later took her chance to flat out murder her in revenge. But I do wonder about the reading comprehension of those that assume Katniss was actually for the Capitol Games. I actually wrote this elsewhere a long time ago, but I think it explains my reading fairly well:


Yeah, there were quite a few hints that Katniss and Haymitch weren't agreeing to another Games so much as they were agreeing to the announcement. My personal gut feeling is that they were giving Coin enough rope to hang herself* and Katniss simply took an opportunity to assasinate her when it arose, but opinions differ.

*The reason Coin sent Peeta to the Capitol was because she saw Katniss as a threat to her leadership and wanted her dead. By announcing the Capitol Games, her chances of getting into power plummeted immensely without Katniss getting everybody else she loved killed. Because if she had opposed Coin, how long do you think Mrs. Everdeen would survive? Peeta? Haymitch? Gale? The rest of the Hawthorne children? And finally Katniss herself. I'm sure she would have welcomed the last one, but Coin would have kept her alive to watch the other deaths first.

[exitmouse]

I also assumed she was lying to gain Coin's trust - maybe not to assassinate her in the exact way it happened (I don't think Katniss was thinking through a plan that thoroughly) but Gale (was it Gale?) made it very clear that if she wasn't obviously for Coin 100%, Coin would find a way to get rid of her... so, time to toe the party line and pretend you're a yes-man until you get a chance to take her out.

So, you know. What Katniss has been doing for all of the other books. Toe the line, say what they want to hear, then shoot them in the throat when the opportunity presents itself. She just got better at it. Or maybe Coin's hubris was too great to notice.