[ SECRET POST #2231 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2231 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 086 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

06. http://i.imgur.com/PaNlfrL.png

[(Anonymous)]

everything was so generic and bland about this movie

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I'm a bit surprised that people thought it was better than Thor and/or on par with the first Iron Man film.

[(Anonymous)]

nice heroes are boring, we all want to see more jerkfaces grudgingly doing the right thing.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it has more to do with the comic books, actually. They spent years trying to remove Red Skull away from Nazism as possible, because there was the comic code and no one talked about it, etc, etc. The X-Men got away because they got their break in the 80's, when the comic code began to fall apart and superhero books began featuring heavier themes.

I guess they could've made it more Nazi-related, but I think they were just preparing the ground for the next films, that would take place in our time and therefore will not need to be heavily connected with it.

[(Anonymous)]

The movie-makers did this intentionally because they didn't want to trivialize the real soldiers taking down the real villain so made a fake villain for their fake hero.

[(Anonymous)]

Because if they made him a Real Nazi then they wouldn't want to sell adorable bobbleheads and action figures of Nazis so little kids could play pretend-Nazi.

Being a fictional-notNazi is ok, but I know I wouldn't want toys covered with swastikas, even if it's just "from a movie"

[oftheark]

Well, the movie wasn't about Cap vs Nazism. And besides, it's not like they didn't show him punching out a fake Hitler a dozen times or so.

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly hated the fake German accents. So fucking bad. It was very distracting.

[(Anonymous)]

Besides the marketing plans mentioned above, part of the reason Red Skull got in deep shit with the Reich was because he broke away from the Nazis and thought himself more powerful than Hitler. It showed how radical and batshit he was, that even the Nazi party was like, "Whoa, son, back up a bit."

[childings.livejournal.com]

Hydra is an actual organization that exists in the Captain America comics and in Marvel's universe. Also Marvel WWII =/= real WWII. Cause yeah, shit like the HOWLING COMMANDOS really existed in WWII.

[mekkio]

I thought he wasn't really Pro-Hitler as much as pro-power. And Hitler had power and was willing to let RS dive into his pet projects to gain even more power in any way he wanted to, so Skully was on Hitler's team. But that given the chance, he'd kill Hitler without a second though if Hitler ever displeased him.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually find Hydra and indeed the Cap himself rather uncomfortable in the context of the actual Nazi ideology, what with the whole biological supremacy thing. Schmidt is essentially on the far extreme of the ideal, remaking people in the search for the true Aryan/Nordic ideal (the original Aryans were Indo-Iranian, I've never been sure how the Nazi's went from that to Nordic, but in universe the Nordic thing makes Hydra's connection to Asgardian tech appropriate but uncomfortable too). Distancing himself from Hitler makes sense, because ... well, Hitler was physically as far from the Aryan ideal as you get while still being the right race, which I keep wondering if people in the actual Nazi party ever commented on. And then comes Cap, Steve Rogers, who's the most Aryan member of the Avengers outside Thor himself, the perfect physical specimen post-serum but fighting on the other side, and there are times where I can't decide if that's a perfect irony or just worrying in context. Balanced against the corruption of the physical ideal that Red Skull represents (false ideals, false serum, leading to physical corruption), it's probably hopeful, but still.

The problem with Hydra/Schmidt isn't that they're bland compared to the real Nazis. The problem is that if you look at them in context with Nazis, they (and Cap's origin) become rather disturbing really.

[insanenoodlyguy]

They wanted to establish Hydra. This worked.

[forgottenjester]

...I thought Hydra had been around in the comics for a long time?

Also, I always assumed he was, like, a super-nazi. He out-nazied the nazis. Didn't he turn his back on Hitler not because Hitler was an icky nazi but because he thought himself better that Hitler? And though he shared similar, if not the same, views on human perfection as Hitler he found Hitler wanting. He though Hitler was inferior and beneath him.

Or did I just pull all of that out of my ass?

[(Anonymous)]

In the movie, Red Skull thought he was better than Hitler. Hense the lack of Nazi stuff.

[ypsilon42]

Personally I liked that they distanced Red Skull from Hitler and the Nazis. That way they had a story set in World War II, and Cap could save the day, but without bringing anymore actual history into this. With World War II having been as horrible as it was and actual soldiers fighting it, it might have been tacky to have some guy in a superhero costume come in and save the day.

X-men: First class feels different to me in this regard. A few characters had WWII background, but that's it. They were affected by the war, but the war was not affected by them. If you had Cap being a hero and changing things explicitly connected to Hitler and the Nazis, the movie would have veered towards Inglourious Basterds.

[sensualcoco.livejournal.com]

That's what your hung up about? He looked fucking ridiculous.

It was just a bad movie.

[thren]

...where I saw the character as not really being a Nazi per se, just taking advantage of the Nazis to further his own agenda. So it makes sense to 'distance himself', because he's got his own thing going on and is just using them.

[dazzledfirestar]

You do realize this was based on a comic book and not supposed to be historically accurate right? HYDRA has been a villainous organization in Marvel Comics for a very, very, very long time. They had ties to the Nazi party during the war but, as many people have stated in this thread, the idea was that they out-Nazi'd the Nazi party. They (being the Red Skull, Zemo, Zola, etc) see themselves as above the petty differences the Nazis were trying to eliminate.

Though why you'd go into a comic book movie expecting historical accuracy, I don't know.

[(Anonymous)]

I seem to recall from the old Red Skull comics that he used to wear a black SS outfit (which would have looked great with his red skull). I was really disappointed how bland Red Skull looked in the Capt. America movied -- plus he was hardly even in the film! Skull should have had more scenes and gotten to be more EVIL. Waste of a great villain, IMO.

Uh...wasn't that the point?

[nyxelestia]

I mean, yeah, a lot of it probably had to do with merchandising and trying to keep up a modicum of respect for the real deal or whatever, but still, I thought the point of his character was that he was so batshit crazy that even the Nazis were "beneath" him?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. Me and the friend I saw this with had deeply inappropriate giggling fits over every "Hail Hydra".

[amanuensis1]

I think OP and I are on the same page: I really, really wanted to see the WWII movie that I thought Captain America: TFA was going to be. While I didn't begrudge the time they spent on the origin story, I was unhappy that they spent still more time not getting to Cap-in-action with the "USO Tourboy" subplot. It took effing forever to get him to be a soldier in action, which was the part I was keen on, and then there was so little of it. And even if HYDRA's canon, it felt so cartoonly inoffensive compared to actual Nazi atrocity that I still couldn't find the WWII-feel in the film. At the risk of sounding flip, yes, I think swastikas would have helped to bring that feel.