[ SECRET POST #2296 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2296 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


__________________________________________________



02.


__________________________________________________



03.


__________________________________________________



04.


__________________________________________________



05.


__________________________________________________



06.


__________________________________________________



07.


__________________________________________________



08.


__________________________________________________



09.


__________________________________________________



10.


__________________________________________________



11.


__________________________________________________



12.


__________________________________________________



13.


__________________________________________________



14.


__________________________________________________



15.


__________________________________________________



16.


__________________________________________________



17.


__________________________________________________



















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 056 secrets from Secret Submission Post #328.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

14. http://oi49.tinypic.com/34zhhky.jpg

[kaijinscendre]

Eh. I hated Bela. So when people whine about 'wanting her back,' I am like No. One) I hated the character. Two) YOU WILL NEVER TAKE MY MAGGIE AWAY! *grabs Maggie and drags into cave* My Maggie.

edit: This is very clear and good reason to hate her. So, if your followers think it is because you hate women or something, maybe you don't want them following you.

OP

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you. This was a nice first response to see. Enjoy your Maggie. XD

[(Anonymous)]

It's been a while since I saw the older seasons, could you give me a hint as to who Maggie was again? xD

[(Anonymous)]

Bela and Ruby were bad characters. It's okay not to like them. It's not okay to dislike them because they get in the way of your ship, but it's okay to not like them for what they are, which is GMPCs. Seriously, it's not a roleplaying game, but they're textbook GMPCs. They show up out of nowhere and act mysterious and badass and are way more powerful than the heroes but also have dark myserious angsty cool pasts and they're always solving the heroes' problems and being super smart and awesome and clever and just the best. They're GMPCs, and that's why they suck.

I think the difference with Crowley is that the show doesn't expect you to see him as the coolest and most badassest character ever. He's just a guy who's a villain. He doesn't have to be the clever guy who wins and outsmarts everyone all the time. You know?

[(Anonymous)]

What the fuck is a GMPC? If you're going to use an obscure acronym, identify it.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the difference with Crowley is that the show doesn't expect you to see him as the coolest and most badassest character ever. He's just a guy who's a villain. He doesn't have to be the clever guy who wins and outsmarts everyone all the time.

That is not the impression I have gotten. If it was the impression I'd gotten, I'd probably mind him less.

[(Anonymous)]

re: Crowley... well, certainly not *lately*

[lunabee34]

Huh. I think Crowley fits the GMPC model (if I'm understanding it correctly from what other people have said in the thread) much better than Bela and Ruby do. I like all three characters regardless. Bela is one of my favorite characters in the show period.

[tabaqui]

This. Add in making the main characters look/do really stupid things so they can pull off the omg!cool! things.

Meh.

[(Anonymous)]

It's not okay to dislike them because they get in the way of your ship,

Why not? I've heard this sentiment a lot and I get it in the sense of "give the character a fair chance" but I feel, at the same time, this is borderline controlling and demanding, when TV series/books/etc are just meant to be fun for people. Why do people need a reason to dislike anyone? I could dislike a character for any number of stupid reasons. This isn't real life, it's all about the experience of enjoying something, and if a character doesn't entertain you, or gives you a sense of dread whenever s/he appears, so what? It might make you a shallow fan, and in fandom discussions a jerk, but the rhetoric of "not okay" sounds like a moral objection that I don't think has a place in anyone's personal enjoyment.

(and I say this loosely, because there are probably some reasons disliking so-and-so makes you kinda shitty, but I'm only talking the extremes that represent further issues - race, homophobia, sexism, etc - but not liking a character because they don't fit in your ship, while shallow, seems pretty normal.)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not going to go into Ruby, but Bela? 'solving the heroes' problems'? How?

-Black Rock wouldn't have been a problem if not for her.

-Red Sky, they could have handled the theft without her involvement (and not had the hand stolen afterward), and then Sam pulls her ass out of the fire by coming up with a different solution.

-Dream a Little Dream, she only gives them a sample of the root so she can steal the colt while they're not paying attention.

She's a peripheral antagonist who sometimes helps the good guys if there's something in it for her. The show never pretended anything else.

She was a badass, and pulled the rug out from under the boys a few times. They returned the favor just as many times. Tally up the score and I doubt she came out ahead, particularly given the whole 'eternal torture in hell' thing.

Apart from a couple of throwaway lines, she didn't get her angsty backstory until her last episode; the main characters never even knew about said backstory, so it's also not like they're sobbing and building shrines to her misunderstood memory.

[kues]

Wow, you put that into words better than I ever could.

And I hardly think Crowley and Bela are one in the same. Jesus.

[(Anonymous)]

What do you expect, OP? This is fandom. If you hate a female character, you're clearly a misogynist. Even if a female character is an absolutely horrible person, you're still not allowed to hate her or insult her, even if you insult the male characters you hate just as much. *spent too much time in the ASOIAF fandom getting yelled at by Cersei fans*

[mekkio]

The two aren't the same. The difference? What the actors brought to the show. Cohan's Bela just seemed all wrong for the show because of the way Cohan portrayed her. Her character was suited for The Vampire Diaries rather than Supernatural. (Yes, I know she was on The Vampire Diaries. But she would have been awesome as an Original.) Crowley as played by Sheppard was perfect because he was a fan of the show and therefore knew how to make Crowley work in the narrative. Crowley may have not worked if someone else had played him. There was a chance we would not even be having this discussion if someone else had played him.

Sometimes what makes a character work isn't so much what is written on paper but what the actor brings to the role.

[(Anonymous)]

This difference makes sense as you describe it, but I really, really don't see Crowley like that. He's a smarmy asshole who's charming when he wants to be but knows what he wants, and what he wants is self-promotion. He thinks he's very clever -- he can be very clever -- but he doesn't do enough research (he thinks the Colt will kill Lucifer, he thinks opening Purgatory is a good idea in any way, shape, or form). He might want to be liked, but not enough to stop screwing someone over for one second.

It's not that I think you should like Bela. I don't like Bela. I just don't understand why you like Crowley, either.

I think possibly the people who do like Bela probably have a view of her that's as different from yours as your view of Crowley is from mine.

[(Anonymous)]

Several things, OP:

First of all, I don't think Crowley and Bela are really similar at all. That's just my opinion.

Second thing: the thing is, SPN writes really, really crappy women characters. They're just bad at it. When they do write a decent character, she either turns evil, gets killed off, or both.

So people's knee-jerk "misogyny!" cries are somewhat justified, I think. Let's face it, there ARE a lot of fans out there who dislike the girls because they get in the way of ships, or the fans aren't attracted to them, or whatever. Which is basically gross. And a lot of those more vocal fans have, to my understanding, gotten characters written off the show. Jo, for example. Bela's another one. Both those characters have a lot of fans (myself included) who are naturally upset by this.

I think there's of course legitimate reasons to dislike a certain female character. If you really don't like Bela, there's nothing wrong with that - and the reasons you've listed here are perfectly valid.

It also sucks to get dogpiled and called a misogynist. I get that. But in the SPN fandom, it's just that there ARE so many that hate the female characters just because they're female that the rest of us may get frustrated. And it's also frustrating to watch a character you liked turn evil or get written off, especially when you know it's because annoying fans made noise. I used to love Ruby, and then she got that crap ending. They totally changed Anna's character after a season. Even Becky. And Jo and Bela and Ellen and so many more.

So basically- I hear what you're saying and yeah, it sucks, but there's a reason people have that knee-jerk reaction. Doesn't make the reaction okay, but I think that's why it happens.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't watch whatever this is, but this secret made me think for a split second Maggie was a Cylon, and I kind of love this idea.

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder though - if Bella were a man, and ended up as a recurring character for a few more episodes, would fans be more lenient with the character? Because I've seen quite a bit of fic of equally awful male characters from other fandoms who seem to get a free pass with a lot of handwaving excusing their actions.

Disclaimer - I liked Bella. But I also think S3 was the strongest written season the show had (I know a lot of people disagree and think S5 was). I was keeping my fingers crossed for her coming back as a demon on Crowley's team.

[(Anonymous)]

Bela kind of annoyed me, but Crowley is honestly the worst. I seriously hope they kill him off and give Sam and Dean another Boss to kill because I'm sick of him spewing off these stupid-ass cliche lines and doing the same dumb shit over and over again. He was okay before, but S8 Crowley is the worst.

[unreliable_narrator]

I have nothing to add other than:

Is that Maggie from The Walking Dead, or just a dead ringer?

[meredith44]

"She was clever, strong, funny, and self-assured..."
And that is why I liked her. I guess I'm not understanding why a character has to want to be liked to be likeable. I mean, there are a crapload of characters in fandom at large (Sherlock and House are the first two that spring to mind) and in SPN fandom in particular (Gabriel and to me, Crowley, as I don't read his manipulation as a true desire to be liked) in particular who don't want to be liked, yet fans love them.

I think for me, it is that you are justifying your like of Crowley while I don't see him as that different from the person that you say you dislike that makes me side eye you a bit. I don't expect every person to like every character, male or female, but I also don't like double standards.

I well understand that my view is the minority. Particularly in this fandom. I've been reading Bela hate since the summer before the character was even first shown. I will continue to not understand the people who hold double standards for character behavior and people will continue to not understand why I actually like Bela. I'm used to it by now.

[(Anonymous)]

Despite being a Bela fan, I have no interest in dogpiling you. Smug and abrasive characters (of either gender) are a coin-toss with me; sometimes they just 'click' and I love them to bits for their prickliness; sometimes they're nails on a chalkboard. Just personal taste.

On the other hand, I'll agree with you that Crowley's gone way downhill. I adored him in his first couple seasons, but now he's just irritating me, Mark Sheppard or no Mark Sheppard.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, what the hell happened to Crowley's character in Season 8?

[(Anonymous)]

I totally agree with you! And I've always hated Bela, probably my least fav character on SPN.