[ SECRET POST #2437 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2437 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 024 secrets from Secret Submission Post #348.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

01. http://i42.tinypic.com/2hfkx3o.png

For the record

[chardmonster]

Not every woman who likes male slash is straight, and not every woman who likes femslash isn't straight. Sometimes it has to do with the actual characters or artist/author. Sometimes what people find hot in fiction doesn't line up with what they want to do in reality. Sometimes people like the art or stories without being at all turned on!

Re: For the record

[(Anonymous)]

You speak insanity!

Re: For the record

[(Anonymous)]

Not disputing any of this at all, but to add to it - there is a very strong tie between femslash and lesbian culture in a way that is quite distinct from fandom in general. There's long been a way bigger overlap between our 'mainstream' and 'fandom' media. (Primarily cause there's fuck all of the former that's any good without requiring tonnes of communaln re-interpretative work anyway.)

[(Anonymous)]

1) maybe your femslash pairing just isn't as popular as the slash pairing you were drawing/writing for and
2) 100 notes really ain't all that bad if it's a small fandom. Really popular artists in my fandom usually max out at around 100-200 notes on fanart unless they are *exceptionally* talented, because it's a tiny fandom.

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry OP, but shipping is all about the characters for me. There aren't any women characters that I like and see chemistry between in any recent shows or movies. I don't see the point in reading fic about characters I don't ship.

Secret 1 - Femslash

[transcriptanon]

[Picture is two intertwined pink "female gender"/"Venus" symbols with hearts where the circle parts go. (The normal symbol is a circle with a small cross attached to the bottom.)]

I briefly wrote fanfic and drew artwork for a male slash ship that was in a large fandom. Even though I'm a lesbian, I figured "oh well, I'll just read the romance and have them be cute in artwork. I'll get to read stories about gay people written by women since there's a dearth of femslash." (It didn't actually cut it.) I still wrote femslash, since I love it and felt an obligation.

Now that I'm out of that fandom though? I miss the comments. I only get one comment on a work that would've gotten tons more. I only get hundred-ish notes on tumblr for art that would've hit thousands on tumblr if it were dudes.

I'm one of those that complain about the lack of femslash... but... I don't know whether straight women are just easier to please or what because I'm sick of not getting the same level of appreciation. It's depressing.

I'm not going to quit, but damn, where's the love?

[(Anonymous)]

It's not that straight women are easier to please. It's that there are tons of people who ship m/m and many fewer people who ship f/f. The vast majority of the arguments I have heard revolved around people saying there are no female characters with screentime or that they don't like the female characters because they are not complex or interesting enough.

(Which I totally call BS on. If Clint/Coulson can be an insanely huge pairing, it is definitely not an issue with female characters not getting enough screentime or being complex enough. I actually would have less of a problem with people ignoring the female characters if they would just say "I am attracted to men so I like slash" rather than trying to pretend there is anything more to it.)

I can understand wishing that you got more attention. I wish that the ships I loved and the things I made got more attention too. Good luck.

Allow me to invite you to the MLP fandom

[feotakahari]

With six female main characters, f/f romance is the default!

[(Anonymous)]

Meh, I like plenty of female characters, but they're usually the very independent and not romantic type, and I don't like reading fic of them where ships are the focus.

I read slash because it's rare to find men being emotional and romantic in canon series, so that's where I get my fix of that. But women in ships and being romantic and shippy is like the default in het everywhere, so I'm less interested in it (in both het and femslash). That's my reason anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

I feel your pain, OP. F/F fandom is just so much smaller. And if you aren't feeling whatever the current big fandoms are you are even more horsed.

I've once or twice really tried to find an m/m ship just to see what fandom's like when there's no dearth of fic or readers. But, y'know... peen. :/

[(Anonymous)]

It might be the fandom. It might be that the HUGE fandoms tend to be m/m based. But even they vary in intesity and interest in liking/giving kudos/replying (i.e. you will get roughly the same amounts of hits for a Sterek fic as a Destiel fic, but, from what I've seen, around 1/3 of the kudos/comments for the Destiel stuff, IDK why.)

Out of nosiness, what fandom/pairing do you hang in now?

[(Anonymous)]

It's pretty simple, really. There are a lot of straight women in fandom. Straight women are into men. So they usually find romance/porn between two men more appealing than romance/sex between two women. I have no idea why people keep wondering again and again why m/m is more popular in fandom than f/f.

And yes, I know there are lesbians who like m/m and straight women who like f/f, not to mention a lot of bisexual women in fandom.

[angrymermaids]

Lesbian who reads and writes m/m slash here.

Read and write what makes you happy, and don't get all bent out of shape when not everyone has the same interests or priorities as you.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I totally understand that it can be depressing to not get as many notes or comments (though I think 100 notes on tumblr can be pretty great, depending on the fandom !)
I try to do my best to contribute to the pairings I love but I'm very slow at doing fanwork... I wish I could be faster sometimes, to put all my ideas into the paper, haha.

And it makes me sad when I hear "but there's not female characters I love/none that have chemistry with each other", because I can think of a lot of them that do it for me ! But that's probably a matter of taste and/or fandom in which I'm in.

By the way, this makes me think that I need to go deeper (heh) into the Utena fandom. I only read a few fics and I'm sure they must be lots of amazing fanworks in it.

[(Anonymous)]

I find it very hard to believe that most slash readers aren't just in it for their love of seeing two dudes make out because even in fandoms where women are equally represented as men, femslash is STILL almost non-existent compared to m/m slash.

And even when the women aren't written as well as the men, if people can ship two dudes that show up for like 5 minutes on a show and never interact with one another, I find it baffling that they can't do the same for two women who have lots and lots of screen time and possibly interact wonderfully.

To me it all just comes off as the same as when dudes watch lesbian porn. I mean there's nothing wrong with it, unless they let that cross into real life, but it drives me nuts seeing all these slash fans list off the reasons they don't ship femslash and claim it's all in the writing or blah blah. Give me a break! There are plenty of shippable women all over the place that get overlooked for the sake of two hot white dudes who look at each other once.

[dragonimp]

I'm ... having a ... hard time finding sympathy for the numbers. I'm usually happy if I get 5 or 6 notes on a piece of art. If I got 100 I would be OVERJOYED. I know it's not a pissing contest but that still... doesn't exactly sound like obscurity.

[caecilia]

me right here I love femslash link me up

[thene]

I've found in some fandoms (the ones I've noticed this in are videogame fandoms) that femslash fics can be slow-burn hits. They might not get a lot of love when they're first posted but because there's so few of them, people will keep on finding your fics for years. And if you're willing to post on FFN femslash can get a decent amount of attention from the teenage boys there, albeit partly in the form of really weeeird comments.

[(Anonymous)]

As a straight slash fan, sometimes I do feel guilty when I see a big femslash ship and think, "if only they were genderbent, i would ship them so hard". With that said, i do like some f/f ships, just not nearly as intensely as m/m ones :/

[lieu]

honestly i'm just lmao over this thread particularly people making toooons of excuses as to why they don't ship f/f

the arguments just don't make sense to me. straight women saying they don't ship f/f because they're attracted to men and therefore want fic exploring the relationships between two male characters (which is the argument i see the most in these sorts of discussions) makes no sense when paired with the OTHER argument which is that female characters are just ~~~written poorly~~~ (yeah because fandoms NEVER fall over themselves in love of generic angsty backstory white guy no. 45) which stops them from being able to ship women together (?). like, which is it, slash fandom? are you in it for the dick or for the ~~good writing, and why are both options taking you straight back to slashtown?

the thing is, if people's idea of what relationships are worth caring about and exploring in fiction were based on what gender people are attracted to, wouldn't the entirety of literature written by straight males focus on the deep and complex relationships between women? even if they were sexualized and objectified in the way male characters are in fandom by the straight female gaze, that argument would imply that we are, as readers, more interested in reading about the gender we're sexually or romantically attracted to. pick up nearly any work of fiction in the english language by a male author and you'll see that isn't the case; you're going to get a ton of works written about men focusing on them as individuals, their relationships with other men around them, and occasionally their relationships with women (nearly always in a sexual/romantic capacity.)

i feel like everyone needs to just get off their collective high horse and admit that we are socialized, as human beings, to value the narratives of men more highly than we do women. either that, or that you're PURELY in shipping for the porn, in which case why are you even bothering with trying to talk about how there just ~~~~aren't any female characters written well enough for you to enjoy or ~~~isn't any chemistry between women.

not trying to attack specific people in this thread or anything, but jesus. these arguments always go the exact same way and i wish people would stop bothering with flimsy excuses and just admit that a lot of people aren't into femslash because society, shock of shocks, raises women with internalized misogyny issues and glorifies the relationships between men as a superior, infinitely complex thing.

[ariakas]

I usually slash rather than femslash because I'm attracted to dudes and prefer to see them get it on.

[(Anonymous)]

I love how this thread has become a pissing contest between women trying so hard to prove they're not extreme, man-hating feminists by attacking even the most tame pro-F/F or pro-female comment.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, uh. I would be more than happy to get anywhere close to a hundred notes for my male slash stuff...

[(Anonymous)]

Am I the only person who can't find fic for the f/f ships that I DO have? I look, but it never seems to be there. Or I end up reading the same stories over and over because that's all there is. The exception is probably the HP fandom, but there's far too much teacher/student floating around there for me to bother trying to find something to read.

Most the biggest f/f ships that I see are for canons I don't watch. And that's why I read almost entirely m/m fic. Because at least it exists (and I can find it).

On a related note, I've just seen that F/F exists quite a bit in Avengers Movieverse fandom. Any really great recs for that? *bats eyelashes, wants more femslash*