[ SECRET POST #2598 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2598 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 031 secrets from Secret Submission Post #371.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

11. http://i.imgur.com/t3t391D.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

"these issues aren't obvious" - thank you OP.

[(Anonymous)]

ugh disney wank is one of my least favorite kinds of wank

[iceyred]

Pretty sure everybody over the age of eight knows that Disney stories are fiction and not to be taken as history lessons. Are you trolling or just desperate to be angry about something?

Pocahontas gives us a hilarious version of coastal Virginia (now with moose!), David Ogden Stiers stealing the show, and Mel Gibson playing the male half of a couple that brings warring cultures together in peace and harmony. Lulz like that don't come around every day.

[(Anonymous)]

This thread is gonna be good.

Popcorn, anyone?

[(Anonymous)]

Huh. Well I had body image issues as a kid, and an ed that I never fully managed to get out of until my late teen years, and one of the things that started it was how 'fat' I thought I was compared to Sleeping Beauty. Disney Princesses were definitely not my role models.

[sarillia]

I don't know why some people have to act like Disney movies are all negative or positive. Yes they have issues and yes there are good messages too. Some people are more sensitive to one issue over another so they will care more about one problem or virtue than others. That doesn't invalidate all the other stuff.

[kaijinscendre]

You know I am pretty sure most kids don't think anything beyond, Ohhhh, Disney! And anyone over the age of 13 is aware they are fake.

[kallanda_lee]

....and Pocahontas is pretty much the only example you could use for that, isn't it? Because the rest are just flat out based on fairy tales, where historical accuracy is a complete non-issue.

And that's what Disney is: mostly fairy tales for kids.

Have they done things in the past that were ""problematic", as tumblr likes to say? Yes.

But Disney is a really old company, and they HAVE evolved over the years. Frozen was one of most positive messages for young girls I've seen in a long time. But hey, you can bitch about it if it makes you happy.

[(Anonymous)]

True.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know what it was like in other places, but me and every other kid in my third grade class knew Pocahontas was fiction before it even hit theaters.

[(Anonymous)]

*sigh* I knew Disney would get a pass from most people on this thread because DISNEY. And the weird, persistent belief that kids don't pick up negative messages because they're kids, which doesn't make sense at all. I'm not saying they soak up things indiscriminately, but you know what? If you grow up in a household where your whole family is racist, you're going to think that's normal.

For better or for worse, that's what Disney does for children. It shows them what's normal/desired.

[(Anonymous)]

You're assuming anyone really cares or believes that the Disney versions match reality. Most don't. Most have no trouble accepting that it was all fictionalized.

[illiadandoddity]

See, I think Pocahontas was a bad example to use here because it's really the only case where Disney did historical fiction, and they got a lukewarm reaction and haven't tried it again. I think the overall themes of the film had noble intent, but the execution was poor and if they wanted to deal with irrational hatred of people who are different and the bravery it takes to go against what your social group says, they really should have just done a Disney version of Romeo and Juliet (which they did do later on with Lion King 2, and I think that was a better movie). Tying the story to actual historical events and figures was a bad idea, because in real life, we know how badly the story ended for Pocahontas and the Native American people.

(And as an aside: I don't think anyone walked away thinking that she was the "good Indian" because she rescued a white man. They saw her as the good person because she took a risk to stop the fighting between their people, and succeeded. That's called being a role model character.)

[(Anonymous)]

It's plausible that they realize those issues are inherent in the films but they enjoy them anyway, OP. It's possible.

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder if anyone ever asked kids what they take out of these movies or if grown ups just like to make assumptions on the problematic messages they see in them?

TBH I saw Pocahontas a few times as a kid and 2 messages marked me: 1) colonists are assholes and 2) being a hothead is bad. There was the normal "be kind and listen to others, see the good in people, don't be a warmongering villain..." Disney messages but they were much less memorable. Pocahontas was not better than the rest of her people, she was just different, and maybe wiser for looking to solve a conflict through discussion rather than war. John Smith (IIRC, the blond dude) was, on the other hand, clearly portrayed as superior to the rest of the colonists (his people) who were obviously self-serving and evil.

As I said, this is not an adult analysis, this is what child-me understood from the movie. It kinda contradicts what adult-you says children understand from the movie, so I wonder if any actual children were ever asked these questions of if your statements are all entirely theoretical assumptions?

[truxillogical]

I'm...yeah, no, I got nothing. Pocahontas was a freaking trainwreck that they somehow managed to make even more painful by making a sequel where she does go to England and everything is spiffy and not-at-all early-disease-induced-death/forced-conversion-esque.

I'd show my hypothetical future kid most of the Disney canon, and maybe talk out the awkward issues like the Dumbo crows, but shoot, no, Pocahontas is just so much worse for trying to be "about" racism and just taking a massive dump all over history.

(Never understood why they had to make a "historical" movie anyway. What, they wanted a Native American princess but couldn't find a fairy tale from the Americas for some reason?)

[(Anonymous)]

Or maybe they take away the completely accurate message that most people suck, including Native Americans, and if you find one of the rare few who don't then you should hang onto that person regardless of who they are or where they came from.

[(Anonymous)]

There are a lot of Disney movies out there. I'd say there are a good number that are really positive. Lilo and Stitch anyone?

Pocahontas wasn't their most conscientious idea. But to be fair that was my favorite movie as a kid and it did inspire me to learn about her real life.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't get your example about Pocahontas. Inaccurate, yes. But what the heck are you talking about with "good Indian"? Pocahontas was my favorite princess growing up, she was a hero and I wanted to be like her. I'm not sure why her being Native American means she can't save the white guy's life. How is it not a good deviation from the usual "guy saves the princess" trope? And what are kids going to take away from that movie besides the colonists sucked at the Native Americans were cool? And that people on both sides can be ruthless and hate/demonize other groups, and that it takes people who learn how to understand those of different cultures to find peace?

I mean, for all the criticism the movie deserves - historical inaccuracy, namely - I don't think the values it teaches are among them.

[rbhudson]

Hmm. Nope. I can't find any lies. No lies here.

[(Anonymous)]

You're right man. They made Zeus a nice guy and Hades a villain and Hera into a loving mother.

Accuracy at it's finest.

[(Anonymous)]

There's only one Disney movie that ought to come with a warning and that's "Bambi"

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe I'm weird, but I thought Pocahontas was good and awesome when I was young not because she saved a white man, but because she stopped two different peoples from outright slaughtering each other over something that wasn't even fucking there. And yes, I thought this as a kid and then went and researched into the real Pocahontas--whom I had never heard of before this film.

[arcadiaego]

I do think you have a very good point, but on the other hand maybe a film like that makes children want stories where things don't end horribly? But it is very dodgy to do that with a real historical character.