[ SECERT POST #1846 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1846 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 110 secrets from Secret Submission Post #.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 3 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 0 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

02. http://i.imgur.com/1tDYW.jpg

[valenciapilgrim.livejournal.com]

I don't read a lot of comics, but I tried to read the Angel: the series Season six comics, and I could not follow for the life of me.

[les-lenne.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I grew up with European and Asian comics as well and something about the American comics disturbs me. The characters often look dead to me. Soulless. :/

[(Anonymous)]

I don't find the layout confusing, but I don't care for the art in most American superhero comics either. It's amazing how the characters manage to look so boring even while wearing those ridiculous outfits.

[violence4.livejournal.com]

Oh god, I find this too. I used to read Astrix and Tintin as a child and the layout in those is simple and easy to follow. All the American comics I've tried to read are so complicated they give me a headache just trying to follow them. The different pictures seem to just jump around all over the page and not be in an obvious order at all (at least not one that is obvious to me, but I guess it's what you're used to).

[(Anonymous)]

My god, am I glad to see people who have the same opinion as me. The layouts are strange and the drawings indeed frighteningly lifeless D:

I want to read them because of characters like the Joker and Poison Ivy, but...

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah. All the characters just look so... bland to me.

[deciphre.livejournal.com]

So glad I'm not alone on this.

[(Anonymous)]

I used to be like this. I've only read manga before Marvel comic books, and when I decided to give superheroes a try I ended up very disappointed and dropped the idea. Then someone suggested reading "Runaways" first, I really liked this series and it helped me to get into the whole verse. In a year I got used to the whole comic-book-ness, and now I have no problems with reading basically anything. Yeah, it's cool when the art is more or less pretty, but it doesn't really bother me when it's not.

[(Anonymous)]

And I think the same about Manga and dislike most cartoony art.

A comics like for me. o/~

[flowerylook.livejournal.com]

You should try reading comics with less action sequences, OP. Stuff like Daytripper or Paul Pope's work in Heavy Liquid/100%

[(Anonymous)]

Count me in.

[(Anonymous)]

I see I've been writing secrets in my sleep again.

But oh my god, yesyesyes. I have been trying really hard to get into American superhero comics, but the art is often distractingly awful and the panel layout completely obliterates any energy that the story might have. They are, quite frankly, an eyesore.

I agree with you on older comics being more aesthetically pleasant, though. I've been trying to read classic comics in order to absorb what's considered the best of the best and hopefully agree with that assessment, and one comic that I actually enjoyed was "A Death in the Family," where the panels and art are clean, none of that 'gritty' cross-hatching and making everyone have a billion wrinkles.

[(Anonymous)]

i'm pretty sure that robert kirkman's invincible is set out in a nice way? also it's generally the perfect first comic ect ect

[(Anonymous)]

I grew up with European and Japanese comics as well, and on the surface it does look like American superhero comics are soulless. Usually the character designs are very similar to each other; there are maybe three or five body types. Just replace the hair, eye-color and skin-color. I assume why this makes the characters look so dead - even the expressions are always similar. But I think there's a good reason for that: there are always many artists and writers working with the same characters, so it has to be something easy to mimic. When one artist quits, another steps in and continues from where the previous person stopped. This is why, usually, there's always the inker and the colorist. Usually artists stick with either doing the inks or the colors, but some artists do both. This way you can easily rotate the artists. European comics don't do that; they have the same artist(s) doing everything, and only choose a successor when/if they aren't able to do so anymore and want the story to continue. And what's more, the successor's style doesn't have to be identical to the original. In American superhero comics? Everything should match up, uniform-like.

That's why the panels have to be different-looking and the layout should always be unique, because how else are you going to stand out? Lots of inkers put a lot of work and thought into creating these things, because they can't mess with the characters. And the better you are at creating strong, outstanding panels and layouts and what have you, the more recognition you get. And that's okay, because it's just another form of comic book art.

Also, I think why manga and European comics read more easily is because everything that happens is usually explained either by the characters' internal monologues and thought-processing; we actually see what, why and how the characters are thinking. Whereas in American comics (and again, I'm generalizing - there are exceptions) the reader is left to do their own deductions and the only things doing the explaining are the pictures - not the characters. It's sort of like watching a silent film.

I used to ignore superhero comics, but nowadays I love them. Once you get used to it, you can appreciate the storytelling more. And... you know, it's different. It's nice.

(Sorry for any mistakes you may find, English isn't my first language and I am way beyond tired ATM.)

[childings.livejournal.com]

There are some indie comics from the US that mirror European comics in layout and pacing, but yeah, I can see what you mean. It's sort of annoying how superhero comics these days all have to have the most "dynamic" layouts (Batwoman, I'm looking at you) and IMO there's too much text and not enough aspect-to-aspect panels

[slr2moons.livejournal.com]

I agree completely, OP. Today I finished a 100 page American graphic novel, and the only reason I know what happened in it is because of the extensive notes at the end. The action was impossible to follow, and every panel was an over-detailed confusing mess--the artist clearly does not appreciate the benefits of negative space or strive for a flowing layout. Most disappointing for me, who most values characterization: I couldn't tell half the cast apart! And the everyone had three expressions: blah, screaming, and asleep. No subtlety of plot, art, or characterization at all.

Yes, perhaps it's just this particular artist and writer combo who don't agree with me, and I've certainly read some amazing comics by my fellow Americans, but the more I dip my toe into mainstream American comics, the more I am reminded why I seem to prefer manga and European books.

Anyone have any recs for visually appealing and good mainstream American comics? I already know and love Elfquest, Sandman, Scott Pilgrim, and anything by Craig Thompson. ^^

[redfiona99.livejournal.com]

Not sure where you're counting 2000AD but the art in that is lovely sometimes. I'm with you about Marvel art though. I temporarily quit one X-men line when I could tell Jubilee and Wolverine apart because of the terrible art work. And I'm another, like valenciapilgrim that finds Darkhorse's comics (they do, or did, Buffy and Angel) unreadable.

[(Anonymous)]

In your opinion. Honestly, I've read them [or enough of them to know anyways], and I don't have a problem with them.

Though, I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to post this? I mean, if you don't like it don't read it - and if someone asks just say 'I couldn't get into them'. That's all it really takes. There's no need to feel 'ashamed', or to make secrets basically saying 'I HATE HOW IT'S DONE! I LIKE THESE STYLES BETTER!'

Granted, comic fans can be vicious - but seriously.

[goobbledigook.livejournal.com]

I'm really ignorant on the panel arrangement thing, but I think I see what you mean, OP. The better comics in general I read didn't really slack off on the details, but didn't go overboard on them when it wasn't necessary.

I'm not really interested in superhero comics either, mostly because of the randomly bolded words, and because the male characters always have that ridiculous angry pout. My biggest gripe though was with the character design - not only every other character looked almost the same(the more important to the story they were, the more generic they were), but their costumes just seemed lazy. You combine the fact that most characters already look the same in the face plus the fact that they all have one body type and their clothes are practically just bodypaint and you get a whole bunch of angrypouting characters that you can barely tell apart.

Most of the manga I read are adapted from videogames and those already give more importance to character design, so I like that better.

[kindlycoyote.livejournal.com]

Oh god, did I send in this secret in my sleep or something?

Plus, it ticks me off how EVERYONE is so freakin' idealized unless they are a villain or something. Perry White used to be chubby, looking like the classic editor. Now? Ripped like he bench-presses most days. WTF? The artists seem to do no research on what people actually wear (Lois Lane in the new Superman comic books- case in point. Since when did high-powered news people wear mini-skirts, purple lipstick, and just-outta-bed hair?) and everything is so STIFF.

I got used to the movements of motion and panel layout that was done so well in manga. Now the layout is so stiff, the figures are so stiff, that it sets my teeth on edge. The last comic book that I read and truly enjoyed was Neil Gaiman's Sandman series. And that is because he got brilliant artists to do whatever the hell they wanted in the comic book! You know, instead of following a contrived layout.

/rants

...Sorry, I just have feelings about this. I would love to get into American Superhero comic books, but Marvel and DC really need to get their ass in gear if they want to actually bring people in. Most of the comic book industry doesn't seem to realize that it needs to change and adapt with the world instead of just doing half-assed reboots. (Though Marvel is doing a great job with the movies, and knows how to do their shit there. And they didn't doa half-assed reboot, so good for them!)

[tamabonotchi.livejournal.com]

The few comics I actually looked at would have over a dozen panels on one page, so I was pretty disorientated from just reading 3-6 panels in manga.
But whatever, people like different things.

[(Anonymous)]

MANGA is orderly? Since when? If anything, one of its perks is that it was willing to be more experimental with panel layout and pacing (which American comics eventually borrowed from, much like how manga originally had a lot of influence from them - sort of a back and forth thing).

[mature.livejournal.com]

I'd like to suggest Love And Rockets, an amazing American comic that is quite readable. :D

[choffman.livejournal.com]

Honestly? lolno. You're so wrong, OP.

Assuming Japanese panel layouts are superior is just a falacy, sorry to say. You can find examples of extremely well-sequenced work in any style of graphic novel/serial comics, as well as horrifically poor sequencing. And there are actually probably more manga with terrible "soulless" art than there are American comics with the same, just by virtue of the sheer volume of manga that gets produced in Japan. The industry there is insanely prolific and totally outstrips all American market production. As a result, the amount of utter shit that gets produced in Japan also outstrips what gets produced in North America by leaps and bounds.

Having grown up reading both, I have to say that the only reason I prefer European and Japanese comics is because it's easier to find good examples of comics with historical merit or educational value. Unfortunately even when you get out of the superhero genre you rarely find anything of the sort in the North American market. It would be nice if someone would change this.