[ SECRET POST #2469 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2469 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 055 secrets from Secret Submission Post #353.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i44.tinypic.com/alrryg.jpg

[dreemyweird]

I'm so confused about this whole thing. Is there even any canon evidence suggesting that either of the protagonists is more likely to be a PoC than white?? If no, then why all the "no he's a PoC you racist shit!" wank??? Why can't there be both PoC and white Carloses and Cecils?

(or is the secret about the fact that people want some shirts to have PoC!Cecil? Because I'm not sure what you meant.)

Either way, meh. Your friends are missing the point.

[nan]

The problem I've seen most people have with it is that since their races haven't been specified (Carlos is suppose to have dark skin but that's all we know) everyone who draws/writes them as white is just defaulting to white because of Reasons.

I can understand the argument and I like seeing a wide variety of Carloses and Cecils but damn, it gets ugly pretty quickly.

[(Anonymous)]

oh my god

go on tumblr and suggest that Carlos might be white

I DARE YOU

[forgottenjester]

Mmm, well, Carlos is supposed to be dark skinned. Cecil has no description, really.

The wank as far as I can tell is because some people wanted to start a discussion about race. A bunch of people who liked white Cecil felt attacked and got defensive. Some of the people who wanted to talk about race then got nasty. Now it's kind of a free-for-all where people attack anyone for anything.

Generally, there are four main groups but only three are really active in the wank.

[erinptah]

Carlos is a POC. That's not ambiguous. The creators have expressed bafflement that anyone interprets him as *not* a POC.

Cecil, meanwhile, gets almost no physical description (and that's a deliberate move on the creators' part), so he can be interpreted any way at all. There's likely some subconscious societal racism going on when the majority of listeners default to thinking of him as white -- but of course Tumblr has a way of taking that observation and going way overboard, because Tumblr.

[forgottenjester]

Why are you starting this?

Why?

Also, wait, they're calling you racist because you think every shirt to vote on is ugly, of which only one shows a non-white Cecil? Or because you think none of the non-white Cecils are drawn well?

Because one of those things sounds fishy.

But seriously, WHY DID YOU HAVE TO BRING THE WANK HERE TO F!S?! WHY? Ugh, watch this thread turn into mini-tumblr.

[dreemyweird]

No, f!s folks are better than that.

[angrymermaids]

Seriously. I wish more people would actually talk about the weirdness and the angels and the Man in the Tan Jacket and the mayoral race and StrexCorp and intern Dana and the hooded figures and SO MUCH LESS about what shade of brown the nondescript narrator might be.

I already blocked so many people on Tumblr over this and I don't want it to be the defining characteristic of this fandom.

WHAT ABOUT THE TRANS

[insanenoodlyguy]

CARLOS IS ALSO TRANS CIS-SEXIST SCUM!

[angrymermaids]

I am pretty ardently against any shirt that depicts Carlos and/or Cecil at all. Not because I'm one of those people who gets all bent out of shape about race, but because I like the idea of them (especially Cecil) looking different to everyone. I have art that I like, and certain headcanons that I like better than others, but my concept of what they look like is my own and I don't want official merch messing with that.

For the t-shirts, I like the idea of having something like a radio microphone and an Erlenmeyer flask and maybe a nice quote depicting Cecil/Carlos. Not the characters themselves.

[forgottenjester]

I like the idea of having something like a radio microphone and an Erlenmeyer flask

That one will always be my favorite too.

[littlestbirds]

Your friends are idiots. How is blindly voting for the Native American Cecil shirt, regardless of whether you think it actually looks good or anyone will actually buy it, helping anyone??

[insanenoodlyguy]

Agreed. Those designs are all horrible and I hope a picture of the hooded figures wins or something because fuck all of their canons. Any picture accepted will make them insufferably smug. Not to mention I've yet to see a good one.

BTW GO VOTE ALREADY LAST DAY

[insanenoodlyguy]

If you are in the fandom and haven't voted yet, today is last day!

http://commonplacebooks.com/submissions/#/t-shirt-design-contest/

Ignore any debates that end up going on and this thread and vote for whatever ones you like!

[(Anonymous)]

nah, don't worry, they're all just really terrible designs for t-shirts

[lynx]

Oh god this wank /)_- *just goes to headwall* Let's see the actual canon evidence, yea?

- Carlos is either Hispanic or Latino (SERIOUSLY, THE NAME SHOULD GIVE THAT PART AWAY AT LEAST) with dark hair and some grey at the temples. There's a quote about him being "dark" that could be interpreted as, his skin is dark too. HE'S A CANON POC. No discussion here.

- What we know about Cecil is that he's "not thin, nor thick; and not tall nor short"; and we know it (if I'm not mistaken) because that's the way Steve was described and Steve is Cecil's "broken mirror". EVERYTHING ELSE IS OPEN TO INTERPRETATION. IT'S NOT A SIN TO MAKE HIM WHITE IF YOU WANT HIM TO BE WHITE. (Nor is a sin to make him a POC either!). The thing is, the creators made the character ambiguous on purpose, and except for the previous, minimal description (which lands him in "average height/weight"), anything goes and nothing is more canon than the others.

Dude, I'm all about for POC representation, I'm Latina myself, but this is the silliest fight in the history of ever and it's getting so bloody it's amazing or horrifying, and TOTALLY NOT THE POINT of the podcast.

For the record, I have two favorite headcanons: A human Cecil with a metaphorical third eye (NOT an Eldritch!Abomination flesh-and-blood third eye), that yes, is white, but that's because I like visual contrasts and Carlos is Hispanic/Latino already. And the other is that Cecil is truly the Voice of Night Vale who looks like... whatever you want him/expect him to look like - which means that when he's alone, he looks like nothing.

That doesn't mean I'm going to burn the house of anyone with a different headcanon. And don't get me started on the Trans!Carlos thing, where did that even came from? O.o I get that some people want trans* representation, but that's a headcanon, not Word of God and most of that people react really badly if you don't agree with them.

TL;DR: Why can't we all get along ;;

[blitzwing]

I thought this said pop!Cecil at first. Art style wank would have been so much more interesting.

[chardmonster]

[crazed_delusion]

Things I do not understand. And so I will question.

How is the fact that according to one poll 80% of the art is White Cecil make it whitewashing?

Does whitewashing not mean what I think it means?

Also, how is the fact that while I love most of the art, I would not buy any as a shirt, but a couple I would love as wall art make me racist?

Also I saw someone ask this and I thought it interesting. Does the fact a white person is narrating make it white-washing if Cecil was in fact a POC?

And why can I not just find people to flail over Angels and Strexcorp with?

[(Anonymous)]

Screw it, Carlos is a Klingon that was adopted by a Human family like Worf.

End of story.

Oh, and the shirt designs are horrible. I'm not buying any of them.

[(Anonymous)]

w/e my only headcanon for how either of them looks is that Carlos had a huge amazing beautiful fro. Why else would Cecil be so disappointed about a haircut.

[corvigryph]

so tell them that your prejudiced against poor design execution, not ethnicity.

Sadly, I think of Charlie Sheen

[(Anonymous)]

The first person to come to mind when I hear the name Carlos is someone who doesn’t even go by that name – Charlie Sheen (Carlos Estevez). And then Santana.

But, there is also this guy – Carlos Lacamara (born in Cuba, guest-starred on almost everything) http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2681376768/nm0479801?ref_=nm_ov_ph

And this one - Carlos Jacott (born in the US, guest-starred on everything ever)
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3905596160/nm0415070?ref_=nm_ov_ph

And this one – Carlos Carrasco (born in Panama, he played Ortiz, that dude in Speed who commented on Jack’s cajones)
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1681437440/nm0140033?ref_=nm_ov_ph

And this one – Carlos McCullers II (born in Harlem, used to play young Gus on Psych)
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3241976064/nm2234143?ref_=nm_ov_ph

So, just the name ‘Carlos’ doesn’t really give any hint of skin color. And I wouldn’t call all of these guys dark-skinned, but their with their dark hair and dark eyes I wouldn’t be surprised at any of them being called dark.

[(Anonymous)]

As a non-american latin, I can't help to see Cecil as white as wonderbread.

He just sounds so white, and I mean that in the sense of what american television tends to portray, thusly my only working frame of reference.

If he gets canonized as any other race, good! no problem at all, but as long as I only have my own perception of the character, he will continue to be white in my head.

He kinda looks like a young Dr. Perry Cox in my head. Why? I don't really know!