[ SECRET POST #1577 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1577 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 044 secrets from Secret Submission Post #225.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 2 - repeats ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

22. http://i56.tinypic.com/2qmdx61.png

[(Anonymous)]

popcorn.gif

[interrobangings.livejournal.com]

popcorn.gif

[(Anonymous)]

lmao y u mad tho :3c

[(Anonymous)]

Well, no one likes extremes in terms of characterization. The extremes are wrong, and end up being more hurtful. It's like you're at a restaurant and ask for spicy food, but they make it way too spicy, so you ask for less and they give you bland food instead. You just wanted a happy medium, that's just right.

[pts.livejournal.com]

[(Anonymous)]

YES THIS SO MUCH

THANK YOU

[yucari.livejournal.com]

I don't like that you seem to believe that fiction is divorced from an oppressive reality. Just because the characters are driving a story doesn't mean that they can't further negative stereotypes or concepts in doing so. Feminist critique isn't entirely without value.

Other than that, yeah, I concur. Fandom is obsessed with critiquing woman characters (not stories as a whole, just woman characters, for some reason). Honestly it seems like the same old misogyny as always, dressed up in a feminist costume. It's tiring.

[hikarinoniji.livejournal.com]

I think I want to marry you. There is so much shit going on when it's about women, it seems like they can't do anything right.

Even the Disney princesses I used to love are being judged like that. I mean... Really?

[twenty-rooks.livejournal.com]

The problem is that female characters aren't allowed to simply be characters (even by their defenders!) but have to be representations of What A Woman Is.

Personally, I think that the badly written female characters are badly written because the writers didn't succeed in what they were aiming for (trying to write an independent woman but still not allowing her to actually be independent, for example), not because they are written as a weak person. Some women are weak/cowards/unintelligent/ and so on, just like some men.

Generally I think that everyone would do better in stop trying to write the perfect woman and try to write as many variations as male characters are afforded instead.

[indevoutly.livejournal.com]

Feminism should be about choice.

If the woman has all choices available to her, then she should be able to make those choices (to become a princess or a body builder - it doesn't matter the choice).

However, in the written word there is always an author who has to make those choices for the character.

Because of this absence of real choice, people can fight for hours over the presentation of a female.

It's just the way of things.

[ladysugarquill]

Anon, I love you. This, exactly. I'm tired that characters are seen as some sort of political tools instead of, you know, characters.

Or worse, than a single character is seen as the representative of ALL the group - women, in this case - instead of being seen as a (fictional) person, with its own peculiarities.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't mind having a good, open, rational conversation about female stereotypes. There's no denying they're all over media. I just get tired of woman getting so defensive about them and/or acting like the media is picking on women specifically. I can't really think of anyone who isn't obnoxiously stereotyped.

And I definitely agree that a lot of it can be chalked up to bad or lazy writing.

[biodamper.livejournal.com]

A+

[mutantjules.livejournal.com]

I agree that a lot of people seem to plant themselves firmly on one side of this issue and take their argument way too far but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about. you don't want to? skip those threads. that's what I almost always do

[childings.livejournal.com]

So not only do the strawfeminists you're quoting only think in extremes, you do too? Lovely.

[cephiedvariable.livejournal.com]

Feminist criticism is like the new fandom excuse to rip on female characters.

It's not what feminism if for guys.

[sour-idealist.livejournal.com]

I think there are kind of two factors with this. One part is that the problem isn't the existence of a certain kind of female character, but the idea that a certain type of woman is the only good kind. That's a pretty sexist notion, and of course there's backlash when it crops up.

On the other hand, there's also a lot of old-fashioned character bashing under a veneer of feminism, and that isn't about furthering a political agenda, that's about misogyny with a new face on it.

And if something is badly written because it relies on cliches and stereotypes, and those cliches and stereotypes are sexist ones, then it isn't 'just' bad writing, it's still sexist, and therefore still a feminist issue.)

(You know what would be really great? If more shows/books/etc had multiple sympathetic female characters, so you could have a fluffy princess type and a braniac and an action girl and a very non-sexual girl and a girl who slept around a lot, and they could be portrayed as different and all okay. Maybe some of those girls could even be the same character so that they could have more than one personality trait!)

[antler-action.livejournal.com]

Lots of female characters are criticized unfairly, yes. Misogyny often dresses itself up as feminist critique.

Is the solution to just ignore the fact that many female characters are lazily written and given way less than their due by the narrative? Absolutely not. It's a "lazy writing issue", yes, but it's also 100% a feminist issue. Writers get "lazy" when they create and write for female characters on a level that surpasses statistically significant. Women in fiction are ignored, robbed of their agency, caricatured and reduced to plot devices by their own creators because they are women. If you don't think that's a feminist issue, I have to wonder what you think does qualify.

[(Anonymous)]

I definitely have feminist leanings, not-lj-feminist, but as in I want equal treatment for women, and I really hate the back and forth too. When there's a character that strikes some cord with me, yeah I do get happy about that, but I only have an issue with them when it seems to be making a larger statement. I don't care if there's a princess in a tower that needs rescuing, but it's obnoxious when there's a large variety of male characters, but all 2 female characters are the same thing. (Naruto fell into this trope for a while with the one girl per team, usually the healer or mage type, etc. A bunch of video games have woman = healer too.)

Basically when it's a portion of a larger cast fulfilling type x, I figure it's her choice. When they all do (or are seen negatively if they don't), then it might be a statement and I'll be a little more critical.

[(Anonymous)]

While I definitely understand your frustration, I think it's a mistake to say it's not always a feminist issue. The very REASON there are so many debates about female characters is because female characters are still under and misrepresented, and often written by male writers that don't know a thing about the female mind (hint guys: it's really not all that different from the male mind.)

But I can get where you're coming from, I often get annoyed with those arguments because when I am trying to explain that something IS sexist and I get back things like "slut-shaming!!" when really, pointing out a character is just fap material for men is not me trying to shame women for their sexuality, it's me trying to get men to stop using women as objects.

[judo-creature.livejournal.com]

this.

/too tired to rant today

[(Anonymous)]

Yet female character coincidentally seem to attract this lazy writing more often than not.

[cloud-riven.livejournal.com]

I hear you. I don't like how some people get hyper critical due to the character being female rather than simply judging them as a character. It's the same spiel given towards non-white or non-cisgendered characters as well. Because they're different than the "norm" they're put on a pedestal or we look hard for whether they pass as exemplary characters of whatever group they're a part of.

Although I know your arguments doesn't exist in a vacuum, how about we get strong characters first :)

[tardiscrash.livejournal.com]

I agree. The real world is full of horribly social injustice to be fought and I am not so naive to think that fiction has no baring on the world but sometime I thing that people just write a character as well as they can with out any thought to how it's going to be persevered under the sort of microscope fandom puts it under.