[ SECRET POST #1754 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1754 ⌋


Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 10 pages, 248 secrets from Secret Submission Post #251.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 3 - too big ], [ 0 - hit/ship/spiration ], [ 0 - omgiknowthem ], [ 0 - take it to comments ], [ 1 - repeats ]
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom.livejournal.com]

14. http://i56.tinypic.com/12376et.jpg

[lykomancer.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. I go the other way: I can't related to most female characters because I find them all too weak, insecure, whiny, or else too stereotypically "bitchy"-- can't a woman be strong without being snide, spiteful, hypocritical, or needing to be beautiful and untouchable?

But then, I'm likely sexist, too, so eh. No one's happy with the way woman in general are portrayed, I think.

[helenadax.livejournal.com]

Female characters often fall under four or five cliches. I've been following "Person of Interest" and the two male characters have a very intriguing relationship; I was thinking that it would be impossible to find something like that with female characters :(

[(Anonymous)]

That's why I relate to Liz Lemon more than I've ever related to a female character before. She's just as awkward, nerdy and mean as me.

[netbug009.livejournal.com]

In before MLP fandom posting pictures of Fluttershy. :D

[fauxkaren.livejournal.com]

Garcia from Criminal Minds, maybe?

[writerserenyty.livejournal.com]

You know, a good part of me agrees with you. I'm all for having strong female characters, but I'd actually rather have well-rounded well-written female characters.

In a fandom I'm in, a character got bashed because she showed weakness in something that would be outside of her comfort zone; it's totally understandable, but it got bashed like crazy. I kind of hate that mentality.

But yeah, I hear you.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

I think the real issue is that so often, there are fewer female characters than males. Therefore, and also for other reasons, there tends to be more variety in male characters. People get frustrated because female characters tend to get written as stereotypes rather than as well-rounded and varied characters. The best fandoms are the ones that have a variety of both male and female characters that allow writers to explore different types of personalities. Then you can have the feisty and outspoken female characters, the shy and withdrawn female characters, the ones who are stereotypically feminine, the ones that fit more of the male stereotypes, and all sorts of other female characters.

Variety is what makes the difference, at least for me. It doesn't bother me as much when shows have different types of female characters as it does when it just has one or two that all fit into the stereotypes.

[zanah0ria.livejournal.com]

Meh, I agree. It's not easy finding a female character I can relate to. :/

[jianna.livejournal.com]

That's not an unfeminist view at all. I also would like to see more female characters that are fully realized people, rather than just *insert character with boobs here*.

It's boring otherwise.

[twistedbones.livejournal.com]

You should watch Black Books or The IT Crowd I think, because Fran and Jen are the best example of an awkard female character done right.

[(Anonymous)]

I may be speaking too soon, but The Secret Circle shows some promise of variety. Anyway, it has six main female characters who are all very different from each other so far, time will tell. Also, both Revenge and Ringer are delivering complex female lead characters with ambiguous morals this season -- again time will tell.

[(Anonymous)]

Female characters really can't win when it comes to fandom. If they're strong and 'kick-ass', they're accused of being too masculine. If they're shy, people wish they'd gain a back-bone and stop being so pathetic. If they're smart, people accuse them of being smug know-it-alls. If they're they're not brilliant, people insist they're too dumb to live. They're too pretty/not pretty enough, too confident/too weak, too cold/too clingly, etc...

And by 'people', I mean fandom in general, not the OP or any particular commenter.

Basically, I feel like the television landscape is full of diverse and interesting female characters but they're all judged as lacking some basic requirement that makes a 'good' female character.

[kribban.livejournal.com]

I don't remember where I read it, but there was this awesome quote that basically ran along the lines of: writers often confuse "strong female characterisation" with "strong female characters."

[homette.livejournal.com]

what the fuck
go deeper into the world of television and movies then because there are lots of insecure, witty, mean but lovable, etc bitches out there that rock
you're just being another whiny female on fs
dumb cunt

[(Anonymous)]

Tbh I'm tired of both extremes, you either have kickass, strong, fierce, bitchy, incredibly smart females or shy, highly sensitive, innocent ones who serve as a plot device.
Is it so hard to write a normal woman with a defined personality and a balanced amount of flaws and qualities? I'm trying not to generalize, plenty of shows have great, well written females but I keep running in walking stereotypes and this upsets me a little.

[(Anonymous)]

What do fandom feminists think of Sydney Bristow? jw

[(Anonymous)]

This article may be relevant to your interests.

http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/18/why-strong-female-characters-are-bad-for-women/

... I'm not sure about Belle as an example of "nerdy and awkward," but I think the rest is spot-on.

[xbriyeon.livejournal.com]

I highly recommend you watch Skins, OP.

[(Anonymous)]

I think the only "females" I can't stand are the ones who are only there as a ~romantic interest~ and nothing else. Especially if the romantic interest isn't even needed. ie. Most of the shitty movies in hollywood these days.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't really agree that they're ALL like this. There are plenty of insecure characters, they just get bashed and told they need to grow a spine and become a REAL WOMAN.

But I know how you feel, it's such bullshit that only violent and sexually aggressive character are touted as brilliant modern examples of a REAL WOMAN. If you're not shooting enemies up and flirting left and right you're just a whiny little girl, go play with your Barbies.

RIVER SONG I'M LOOKING AT YOU. FUCK.

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

This isn't an anti-feminist view. It's actually a generally feminist view about how a lot of writers are really fucking lazy about writing women.

Here's an article I really liked on lazy portrayals of women beyond typical damsel-in-distress complaints (http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-obnoxious-assumptions-hollywood-makes-about-women/#ixzz1bYS4416j):
I'm not saying women don't get angry for no good reason sometimes. Everybody does. I'm saying that the fact that a female character is hostile to a man right off the bat, without him having done anything bad, is apparently supposed to make us go, "Yes! She's strong and independent!" and sympathize with her, instead of wondering what her problem is. [...]
There's two reasons for this. One is just lazy writing. They can't think of a reason, so they just leave it as is, call it a day, and go do cocaine.

The other is that this is really how the writers see women. Their only picture of a "tough" woman is of a bitchy militant feminist who will scream at you for saying "Congressman" instead of "Congressperson." Tough women never have sensible reasons for getting upset (like being automatically denied a promotion because "you'll probably want to have babies in a few years"), but are just paranoid against men. But all the other women seem to rally behind them when they make a scene, so general anti-male paranoia must be what women admire.

These very well might be the guys that ogle women at the gym and get yelled at for it, and then tell stories later about how they were minding their own business at the gym and one of those oversensitive women that "sees rapists everywhere" threw a fit for no reason. So when it's time to pander to the female audience, they write a character based on what the lady at the gym looks like through their eyes (irrationally hostile towards a nice guy), expecting women to cheer for her like they supported the gym lady.

But it doesn't work like that. Most women, when they see another woman react to a man who says, "Hi, my name is Pete," by punching him in the balls, tend to stare in horror rather than whooping in sister solidarity. If this turns out to be a pattern, we're more inclined to suggest counseling than to admire her independence.

[angelus7988.livejournal.com]

I think this is damned-if-you, damned-if-you-don't misogyny. Either a female character is weak, clingy, and passive, or she's a ball-busting bitch. And that's not even getting into the internalized misogyny of some fans (like what the 1st secret in this post was talking about).

[(Anonymous)]

You just inspired me to get off my butt and make a secret I'd been thinking of making since I started replaying one of my favorite video games a little while ago. Most people know me as liking the strong fighter-class video game women, the ones who can beat up guys three times their size... but despite hearing people say TEN YEARS AGO that Team Ico was "doing it wrong", I still love Yorda. Different kinds of strength, you know? *fires up photoshop*

[(Anonymous)]

Most feminists above the age of 20 won't judge the quality of a female character on her ability to beat up boys. Just sayin'.