[ SECRET POST #1986 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1986 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 119 secrets from Secret Submission Post #284.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0- not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 2 - going to have to be a little more subtle than this ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[avocado_love]

Don't agree with the first bit, but 100% on the second paragraph. It's the reason I haven't gotten into Avengers fandom, tbh. Fanon seems to lean towards making Loki an abused woobie.

When I saw him in Thor and the Avengers he came off as a sad little man who used imagined slights to justify his own horrendous acts.

[writerserenyty]

Just saw Thor for the first time yesterday (after seeing Avengers three times, haha) I'd have to agree with you. Fandom makes him a woobie but...

[loracarol]

Basically, your comment = my thoughts.

[(Anonymous)]

When I saw him in Thor and the Avengers he came off as a sad little man who used imagined slights to justify his own horrendous acts

Pretty much. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised that the majority of fandom would turn him into a gigantic woobie instead...

[(Anonymous)]

This this this.

So sick of woobie Loki. So, so sick of it.

[fauxkaren]

Woobie!Loki is the worst.

He is not a good person.

He is a villain.

It is OK to enjoy villains as characters.

[got_swagger]

It is OK to enjoy villains as characters.

+1 x INFINITY

[(Anonymous)]

But if he's not a woobie, how can I reach him and hold him and 'save' him with my vagina?! Waaaahhhhh!

[(Anonymous)]

I find myself wishing this sentiment was echoed for Azula in the A:TLA fandom. It's sorely needed.

[(Anonymous)]

... but it's not okay to see why he'd turn to be a villain? See something a bit more complex than your usual "lollol, i'm evil because that's what villains are~!"

reading Loki as emotionally abused (and kinda unstable in general) =/= Loki is a woobie.

Wtf is your logic.

[(Anonymous)]

Yet another fandom made horrible by the "poor abused woobie" effect...

[cashay]

I don't mind that fandom sees him as being abused, both Thor and Odin were giant douchbags in Thor, at least in my opinion. I personally rooted for Loki in the movie just becase I didn't like anyone else :P

But what I can't understand is why everyone seems so intend on making him weak and helpless just because he was abused. Same goes for trying to justify his action by him being abused.

On the other hand, people can read and write what they like. If people enjoy writig them like this by all means they should go ahead :)

[(Anonymous)]

Wait, I know Thor was a dick (though not as big a one as Loki) but how was Odin a giant douchebag?

[intrigueing.livejournal.com]

What I seriously don't get is exactly where the whole "Loki is abused!" thing came from. WHERE do they say that? Does the movie ever say Odin or Frigga or Thor abused Loki or favored Thor over him (not counting the whole older-brother-becomes-king thing)? Does the movie ever say that his parents and brother didn't love him? Does it ever say that anyone ever mistreated Loki in any way other than the Warriors Three giving the vague impression that they though Thor was cooler? Did anything traumatic or exploitative ever happen to him? Did his family ever withold affection or treat him differently than any younger brother would be treated? Was anyone ever unfair to him?

NO.

All I can see is that Loki was resentful of Thor for being older/more popular/heir to the throne, and that he had a meltdown when he found out he was actually adopted and a Frost Giant. The only bad things anyone ever did to him is that Odin lied about his parentage, and Thor was a bit of a bossy dick (read: the experience of 70% of everyone in the world who's grown up with a popular older sibling).

But I think the kind of fic that pisses me off the most are those ubiquitous Loki/Tony fics where Tony ~understands~ Loki or some bullshit and sympathizes with him and sides with him. Like, what? The entire point of the whole Loki/Tony comparison in the movie is that Tony's very existence completely and utterly undermines every bullshit excuse Loki throws out. Tony's incredibly similar to Loki in personality (the whole arrogant egotistical diva thing), and he had an actual emotionally abusive father and actual horrible traumatic experiences and was actually betrayed by a father-figure he loved and trusted all his life -- far worse than the completely made-up slights Loki claims to have suffered -- and yet Tony's helping people and taking down bad guys and trying save the world instead of whining about how his life sucks and trying to rule everyone. Seriously. The entire Loki/Tony dynamic can be summed up as: Tony knows a lot more about Loki's supposed "problems" than Loki does, and he thinks Loki is full of shit. And somehow that gets flipped completely ass-backwards into "omg Tony's the only one who understaaaaannnnds him!!!"

Yeah sorry for the rant but seriously, that particular fanfic trope make me pull my hair out in frustration due to its popularity.

[(Anonymous)]

It's a common thing in many fandoms for there to be a "poor abused woobie" - sometimes they're the canon villain, sometimes they're one of the main characters and are supposed to be the good guy. More often than not there wasn't ever any actual canon abuse... or if there was it was often never as extreme as fandom makes it out to be for that character. And even then it should excuse EVERYTHING the asshole does.

Some people have to find any excuse for their favorite to not be the cause of his own downfall. It's always someone else's fault they act the way they do. If people would just be nicer to them or tried to understand his pain they'd realize he was good person deep down. What the fuck ever. These characters are assholes, and it's entirely their own fault people hate them. Get over it already. Like them for being assholes, don't make them poor abused, totally innocent, woobies when they're nothing of the sort

[oftheark]

+all the numbers

[majorshipper]

I agree with a ton of this. I still like Loki, and I appreciate his emotional complexity(moreso than your typical comic-book villain), but he's not as ~tortured~ as it seems like the entirety of fandom makes him out to be. I appreciate him; for being a villain, the role he was MEANT to play.

[(Anonymous)]

I personally felt that Odin's favoritism was very clear, and that it was obvious that Loki knew from an early age that his brother was preferred by everyone, not even just their parents. The fact that he seems to have no friends of his own -- even the people he hangs around with belittle, demean and insult him, hell, even his brother does -- compounds this. Personally I felt that Loki showed clear signs of emotional abuse, having essentially spent his whole life being shown if not directly told that his brother was better, more popular, more worthy, etc. than him, seeing that preference so clearly. Then it becomes ten thousand times worse when he finds out his true heritage -- to him, it would immediately become clear: he was treated the way he was because of what he was, and what he was was what he'd been told basically as far back as he can remember was a monster, the scum of the Nine Realms that must be destroyed, that his loved ones want to destroy.

I don't think Loki's emotional abuse was "made up" or "all in his head." I actually think it's kind of gross when people can't see it. But maybe it takes a victim of emotional abuse at the hands of your family (in my case, it was literally my entire immediate family) to recognize it here? idk.

Here's a pretty good piece about it on Tumblr (http://the-deviations.tumblr.com/post/24118747896), and there are tons more.

I don't believe he's a "woobie" or that this excuses his actions. But you can acknowledge that Loki was emotionally abused and treated like shit without excusing what he did.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know how familiar the people who make those claims are with the comics, but he is certainly treated much worse in there then is shown in the movies (not that it excuses any of his actions, but I always got the sense that he had stronger reasons for his jealousy in the comics than in the movie). Maybe that has something to do wtih it? Or they read summaries or scans and then (selectively) apply that information to movie canon?

[got_swagger]

I enjoy Loki as a villain, but making him a poor, traumatized woobie?

No. Just... no. Not relevant to my interests in any way, shape, or form. I have to put up with that too much as it is in my other fandoms.

[(Anonymous)]

Seriously.

Loki was a sympathetic character in 'Thor'. In 'Avengers' he kills 80 PEOPLE IN TWO DAYS. That's not an abused child acting out. That's psychopathy.

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't exactly call being lied to your whole life an imagined slight. Nor being raised to believe the race you actually belong to is a race of monsters. Yeah he gets over 'woobieifed' but the guy has some real issues.

I mean lets face it Odin was a pretty sucky dad, to both his sons. I mean the end of Thor? He just had to say something like "It's okay Loki" or "I love you, Loki" and Loki probably wouldn't have tried to commit suicide (Which lets face it dropping into a the void is).

[elaminator]

When I saw him in Thor and the Avengers he came off as a sad little man who used imagined slights to justify his own horrendous acts.

This!

[(Anonymous)]

He wasn't abused physically or psychologically, like, at all. My impression from "Thor" was that was Loki had some pretty big "second son" issues and was jealous of Thor, whom he felt didn't take the idea of being Odin's heir seriously, and also some minor daddy issues as well because maybe Loki thought Odin favored Thor more. I always thought Odin was decent to both of them equally.
Essentially, Loki behaved like a jealous teenager putting on airs because he was convinced he was a better choice to rule Asgard.
So then he finds out he's Laufey's son and hello! Adding to the identity crisis of trying to get out what he thought was Thor's shadow.

Conclusion? Loki is the new Draco in Leather Pants.

[amaresu]

When I saw him in Thor and the Avengers he came off as a sad little man who used imagined slights to justify his own horrendous acts.

I agree 100% for Avengers, but in Thor I saw him as the black sheep of the family finally realizing why he's the black sheep and having a giant freak out. Like if everything else hadn't gone quite so horribly and if Odin hadn't fallen into the Odin sleep at that exact moment I think Loki wouldn't have gone so far off the deepend. Regardless it's clear just how much his family does care for him throughout the movie. Right up to the end they all make it clear that they're willing to forgive everything if he would just let them.