[ SECRET POST #1986 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1986 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 119 secrets from Secret Submission Post #284.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0- not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - take it to comments ], [ 1 2 - going to have to be a little more subtle than this ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i.imgur.com/VAGXX.jpg

[(Anonymous)]

oh

[avocado_love]

Don't agree with the first bit, but 100% on the second paragraph. It's the reason I haven't gotten into Avengers fandom, tbh. Fanon seems to lean towards making Loki an abused woobie.

When I saw him in Thor and the Avengers he came off as a sad little man who used imagined slights to justify his own horrendous acts.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Wow you're delusional. Did you miss the line in canon where Thor explicitly says, AND I QUOTE: "This mortal form grows weak. I require sustenance!"

Translation: Thor gains his sustenance from raping Loki four dozen times a morning. (Five dozen now that he's grown up.)

[(Anonymous)]

Is there any fandom that doesn't have "was abused as a kid" as fanon for at least one character?

[(Anonymous)]

Oh man OP, I'm so torn, because I agree with you 100% on the second one...

Okay let me try to explain the Coulson thing to you: it's not about his fanboyness to me, or representing the fans that way, not really. It's about him being, you know, normal, "boring", but getting his job done and being brave and holding his ground and that being worth something anyway. Not everyone can be Tony Stark, or Steve Rogers, or whatever. Some people are the suit-wearing mundanes with responsibilities who have a sense of humor and curiosity and willingness to believe in heroes. It's not a bad thing. It's something I, personally, respond to a lot more closely than to any of the official Avengers, something a little more attainable.

The "white man" thing: yeah, it would be fantastic if it'd been Sitwell or Maria Hill in that role, or even Nick Fury. I'm not going to argue otherwise. Maybe next time it will be.

But hey, you're not obligated to love him. And honestly, I feel like people are going to get over it eventually, so maybe that can be some solace to you.

[intrigueing.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, did you seriously just say you hate Coulson? Wow, sorry, I might have to kill for that. Nothing personal, just on principle, you know.

I mean I totally agree that the fanworks surrounding him have become ridiculous (his spotlight started as epic crack that somehow began bleeding into serious fanworks and getting taken seriously for some reason), but it's COULSON. Coulson! I literally thought he had become that elusive fandom Holy Grail of the unhateable character. :)

(Also what do you mean he's supposed to represent the viewer? He's a frickin' highly-trained secret agent/stuffy bureaucrat who's been working for SHIELD for a couple of decades and who's famous for not ever being ruffled or surprised by anything. How is that representative of the viewer? He's supposed to represent the viewer's friend, IMO. Someone the viewer knows and likes but takes for granted).

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, but can you imagine the wank if a woman or poc had died?

[pts]

I'm over "basic" as a pejorative. To the rest of this secret: uh, okay?

[(Anonymous)]

I like Coulson, I just don't need tons of Coulson-centric fic. He's fun to write as a supporting character. And I actually don't think he's a stand-in for the fans (if anything, that was Darcy in Thor). I can't say any of this because one of my LJ friends absolutely adores him. I get you, anon, at least partially.

And I'd much rather pair Clint with Natasha, Thor, or Steve. Or even Fury. I just don't get the Clint/Coulson hype. There. I said it.

[vethica]

VAGXX.jpg

*undignified snort*

[(Anonymous)]

I see the fangirling/boying of Coulson as intentionally over-the-top fun. Then again, I tend to stay to the fringe of the Avengers fandom so I probably missed the craziness.

However, agreed on the second part. I do like Loki but I had to stop following the Loki tag on tumblr because the Woobie!Loki brigade as making me dislike the character. Now I find myself in the same situation with norsekink. While there was never a shortage of woobie!Loki prompts, it seems like it's more prevalent these days (or maybe I'm just tired of seeing them).

[diet_poison]

I mean, I liked Coulson...but that was it. He was just another suited agent, and I didn't notice him as much as the other characters (namely, the actual Avengers, the villain, and Fury because he's impossible to not notice). I think even Pepper stood out to me more. Yes, he's kind of adorable at times, and I don't have a reason to dislike him, but I also don't understand the rabid fangirling (or fanboy-ing?).

Not that I really have a problem with it? just not something that's really on my radar, personally *shrugs*

[(Anonymous)]

I don't hate Coulson, he's fun, but I don't understand how he became such a big deal. When the Black Widow promo came out, I couldn't find a single friend to talk about how amazing she was in it. They only talked about Coulson's couple lines and humming on the phone and didn't mention her existence at all, and no one replied to my thoughts on it. =(

[sparklywalls]

I don't get the epic Coulson love. He's nice enough and yeah it sucked that he seemed to draw the short straw and had to die to be a plot device, but he was just kinda...THERE. That was it for me. I dunno, a lot of the anger seems to be more directed at Joss being Joss and killing someone.

As for the second part. Just echoing the other comments too. Did they miss how much Thor still obviously loves his brother after everything? Odin took Loki in and raised him as his own, sure Odin won't win parent of the year but there's no indication he abused Loki! Loki seems to take Thor being first born and first in line to the throne as a personal slight and then the shit hits the fan and he gets worse.

TL:DR: Woobie Loki sucks. I don't understand fangirls who claim to be a fan of a character and then change him beyond all recognition. It's ok to like the villain guys! We won't think that you think killing an entire race is ok or anything!

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know why I'm typing this, perhaps I feel some need to validate my inner thoughts, but I'm reluctant to see Loki as evil, and I have my own personal reasons for that.

I think the reason I see Loki as such a tragic character is because he's obviously been loved and still is loved, but he's unable to see that. It doesn't matter if you're the neglected second child (which Loki isn't, as he hasn't exactly been neglected) or the praised older child (as I have been), feeling unloved by those you love the most does things to you.

I interpret Loki as being used to being in Thor's shadow and okay with it most of the time, but he's always had a tiny voice in the back of his mind that he doesn't belong or his parents don't really love him or he doesn't really have friends and only tags along with Thor because he's his brother. Whatever the case, he has some doubt as to his position in the family.

When he finds out who he really is, he goes a little crazy, coupled with the fact that he's more or less been handed absolute power, thus he does the only thing that he thinks will get him acceptance, destroying Jotunheim. When Odin and Thor stop him, he slides even deeper into that place in his mind of despair and doubt, prompting him to let go of the staff. Going through the transdimensional wormhole only upsets his mental balance even more. Further isolated from everything he knows (Asgard), he comes to the conclusion that subjugating the human race and gaining power will bring him peace and self-worth.

The tragic part is that there's a huge amount of miscommunication and misunderstanding within the family. Loki doesn't realize he's been loved. Or, if he does, he can't believe it and needs something else to prove himself. The point is, you do some pretty stupid and desperate things to feel love and self-worth.

Just my two cents.

[streetcake]

Wow, you're overdramatic.

[solo-by-choice.livejournal.com]

Absolutely agree with the second part. So your Dad didn't tell you you were adopted until you were an adult and your older brother got a cool job or whatever that you wanted. GET THE FUCK OVER IT. Whiny bastard.

As for the first part, I haven't seen this phenomenon. I like Coulson, but I never got the impression he was supposed to be "us." Oh and by the way, it IS possible to identify with someone of a different age/sex/sexuality/gender/race than oneself. jsyk

[elaminator]

I LOVE Coulson but...I like him for what he is in the movie. Haven't really been in the fandom side of things. And Loki? Well...I love him too, but the less said the better about how fandom sees him.

[arcadiaego]

I think you may be getting a little too angry about this. And Norse Kink is about prompts for fanfic, not insisting that something is canon.

[ex_mek82]

Eh, I didn't particularly care for Coulson the first time I saw 'Thor', but a friend of mine really likes him and he kinda rubbed off on me from there. I thought he was pretty cool in 'Avengers', but the 'memetic badass Coulson' doesn't really catch my interest all that much. Still, most of it seems to be self-aware, tongue-in-cheek humor, so I can't fault people for that.

Then again, fanon can get a little strange sometimes. I try not to pay attention to the Avengers/Marvel*Movie fanbase and just stick to Marvel Cosmic.

Also, since Norsekink was mentioned... I'm crushed there isn't more Beta Ray Bill fic. He might not have appeared in a movie, but he's a 'Thor' character, too! Hehe.

[wolfiemon]

O_o Ok then... You seem to really hate this character. That makes me really sad. Also confused.


I definitely don't think Loki was physically abused by his family (WTF?!), as for emotionally abused, how do you know? Emotional abuse isn't always direct or intentional. In any case I don't think he imagined everything. Some of it HECK YEAH he imagined, and that is what makes him really tragic to me. Is that his family loves him 100% but he just doesn't get it. But he also kind of finds out that he is part of a race he was raised to believe was a monster. There are a million things that could go wrong in someones head after finding that out even if what he thought wasn't rational.

I really don't think it is so black and white or one-sided, and that is what really bugs me about the people who say he deserves no sympathy or can never be redeemed. Yes, he is an asshole and did really bad things and is kind of a moron, and no I don't excuse his crimes or anything. But I am still allowed to have sympathy for him and hope that he gets redeemed or finally understands that he is loved or whatever.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. Fandom's obsession with Coulson is making me annoyed by him too. At least half the the gen team fics have him there as well, usually for no apparent reason and usually paired with Clint and it just confuses me.

Sure people can write whatever they want, good for them, but damn it's irritating to be reading something labelled as TEAM fic and then have Coulson pop up out of nowhere.

[arise]

Don't agree about Coulson (but do see where you're coming from - I'm just pretty ambivalent to him in general so yeah), but omg yes re Loki. I really liked him in Thor and was all ready to be like "yaaaay Avengers fandom this'll be so great!" but jfc does he get Draco In Leather Pantsed all the time.

Which pisses me off because I like him better (and only, really) as a sympathetic but also pitiful guy who can't let go of the past. But I guess that's a whole different kind of Woobie.

[castorochiaro]

People think Frigga abused Loki? It's made pretty clear that Loki and Frigga were on good terms with one-another, how very odd...

ANYHOO.

I don't love Coulson because he's "an Avenger". I love the fact he's average, and seemingly the white-collar normal guy amidst all the superheroes and geniuses. It's made pretty obvious that, just like everyone else, his outer appearance can be deceiving and he's capable of much more than people give him credit for. And I love the fact that, as a more down-to-Earth guy, he's basically the babysitter at some points. I think if they didn't have a more level character like him among so many powerful personalities, things might get really hectic.