[ SECRET POST #2988 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2988 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 050 secrets from Secret Submission Post #427.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 2 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

05. http://i.imgur.com/ABL8inE.jpg

[otakugal15]

I know fandom has always been kind of shit in how it treats it's fans, but damn. When the hell did fandom become this elitist snob club? Was it always there, just in the shadows? Or did something shift one day and I miss the meeting and subsequent memo?

[siofrabunnies]

There will always be people who take a hobby way too seriously, and feel superior to anyone who doesn't take it as way too seriously as they do. These people will always be assholes.

I hope you're being facetious about leaving your fandom. If you're bothering anyone by just reading and commenting, then it's their problem.

[(Anonymous)]

I have a problem with how the class told people to review, but I have not a problem with them reviewing fic. If you put fic out there on the 'net, it can be reviewed by anyone. ANYONE. That's the risk that you take.

[(Anonymous)]

I have not even heard of this incident, but it's absolutely baffling. I'm pretty sure most people do fandom the way you do. At least I do. It's not an elite club, it's a hobby.

Also, the idea of someone who's not even into fandom reading one of my fics sounds fascinating. I wonder what sort of reaction is would get.

[manzana]

Sounds hilariously depressing. What's this about?

[(Anonymous)]

Ehh, I think people had a point. I think it's a bit fucked up to come to a new community, unaware of its tropes, customs and codes of conduct, and analyzing its stories without bothering to learn anything about the context it came from. It's as if you tried to analyze a piece of Indian literature expecting it to be like American literature, for example. From a purely academic point of view, you're going to do a shitty job analyzing it.

[feotakahari]

I keep trying to write a rational response to this tempest in a teapot, but all I can come up with is this:

[(Anonymous)]

Fandom is like any other community: it has a "barbarians at the gates!" philosophy of closing the castle doors or pulling up the ladder or what have you. But of course the boundaries of fandom are ever-expanding. The same type of folks who were fanzine fans and freaked about internet fans are the types who now are freaking out about Good Reads fans or whatever.

There's some really good history recorded about it on fanlore. It's wonderful how all the language is the same. It's just the players who've changed.

[lady_songsmith]

My thing about that whole kerfluffle was that they were fans. They were college students taking a course about fanfic. You think anyone walked into that not as a fan? Maybe they weren't fans of all the canons the class covered, but who hasn't read fic for a canon they don't know occasionally? And maybe they were fans of lots of canons but new to fic, but everyone's a fic virgin once.

Yet they were treated the way complete outsiders going "lol who is this into TV isn't that funny haha basement joke here" were, and that's just not cool.

They were fans. Baby fans, eager to see more stuff. And a certain segment of fandom shat all over them as self-declared gatekeepers.

[(Anonymous)]

I hadn't even heard about this before, but if it's true that the ones behind it are actually fanficcers themselves and familiar with the tacit codes of conduct, then that actually makes their decision to do this even more stupid.

They of all people should know what it feels like when someone randomly shows up to trash your work. If one of them has actually taken down their own fanfics (presumably because the backlash sent a lot of hate her way?) then surely she realizes that's exactly how the people she sent others to review felt? Or was it okay to do that to strangers under the guise of academia, but not when the tables are turned?

I fully appreciate that once you post online then anyone at all can read your work, and it'd be ridiculous to try putting elitist limits on that (what'd be next, you have to have a certificate that says you're familiar with a certain canon before you can read or review fics set within it?). But if these people were part of the community themselves, then the fact that they didn't even seem to consider perhaps asking writers whether they wanted to be involved in something like this pretty shitty on their part.

My first reaction was "If I got a review from one of these students then I'd just ignore it as being from someone who wasn't familiar with fanfic in the first place," but the issue for me is that the people getting these reviews had no idea that this was the case. For them it was just a really harsh review from someone they'd assume was familiar with the context and conventions of what they were writing and tore it apart anyway.

[(Anonymous)]

Thing is, fanfiction is produced with a very niche audience in mind and those students were forced to read that stuff when it really was never meant for anyone but the few people who are specifically into this sort of thing. The students were also forced to review these stories that didn't interest them in the least.

That's not exactly a very intelligent approach to talking about a niche sub-subculture academically, seeing as "you must read this and then talk about it in depth" will almost always get people in a negative mood. The teacher could have easily told them to write the review down and hand it in instead of subjecting some teens to the treatment that books of men that died a century (or more) get.

[kallanda_lee]

This is utter nonsense, you realize.

Firstly, when you put something online, especially on a public forum like AO3 OU DO NOT GET TO HaVE CONTROL OVER WHO READS IT.

You just don't, and you better pray you didn't link our real name to it, because otherwise people will be finding your smut 30 years from now.

Secondly, people who make the distinction of "real fans" versus "not real fans" are usually snobby elitist jackasses.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just kind of picturing it as a bunch of friends are playing kickball in a park, and a hoard of sportsfans show up and start screaming at them how they suck, they're too fat to be real athletes, they need to stop screwing around and take this seriously.

Yes, by playing in public they're 'inviting' anyone to comment on them, but there's a difference between passerbys seeing them play, and an organized mob.

[a_potato]

I have mixed feelings about this whole thing.

Requiring the students to leave critical reviews on the fanfic that they read is...weird, and definitely seems like it might stretch the rules of etiquette. Imagine a contemporary lit professor requiring students to send critical letters to the authors of the works being read. Even the thought of requiring students to leave critical reviews on, say, Amazon would strike me as being bizarre, if not necessarily rude.

On the other hand, the idea of "organized fandom" is equally bizarre, and the idea that you can or should be able to keep certain people away from your fic is unrealistic and snobby. Once you put it out there, anybody can come across it, and yeah, people might leave reviews that are less-than-positive. That's just the way it is.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not touching the incident, save to say that you utterly misinterpreted the kerfluffle over it, but I really doubt that people in fandom treat you coolly because you're not a "real fan", whatever that means. It's extremely unlikely for that to be the case, unless you repeatedly make derisive posts talking about how you're not like the other fans.

I'm inclined to believe that you just aren't making friends very well, so of course people aren't treating you as warmly as they treat the people they've befriended.

[fingalsanteater]

I hate the way a certain segment of the fandom took up arms, declaring fandom was a space that "outsiders" weren't allowed in, but at the same time, I get it. Fandom has been this dirty secret, niche community that is often spoke of with derision and laughed at (remember all those panels where they read fic and laughed at the idea if people writing about Sherlock and Watson, etc. having sex?) by those not involved. So, when a discussion of fandom becomes curriculum in a university, requiring perceived outsiders to invade a space we've created for specific people who will understand (those in the fandom), I totally get the reaction and backlash directed at the teachers and students involved. It sucks that we can't be more welcoming, but when you are used to being mocked and having to explain your hobby, I get it.

I'll just be honest

[(Anonymous)]

I've never understood why people get so...defensive (? is that the right word) about criticism -- even harsh criticism. So someone doesn't like your fic and thinks it's a piece of trash and tells you so. Well...so what?

I just don't understand why it bothers people so much I guess. You're putting yourself out there on a public platform. Sheer probability dictates that not everyone is going to like what you write. Who cares what an anonymous person thinks?

It just seems really insecure. I don't think people have to reply back to their critics or anything but I just don't get why some people get so upset by it.

Then again, I'm the type of person that would rather hit a nerve than be ignored.

[(Anonymous)]

Does anyone have a link to some of the fics that were read where one can see the reviews that were left? The impression I get from reading comments is that the students left rather nasty critiques and that's why people got up in arms but I don't think I can really judge without seeing the reviews. I mean, if you put something on the internet sorry, you don't get to control who reads it and you are not entitled to only 100% positive feedback. On the other hand, if the students left really tone-deaf reviews that ripped the fics to shreds instead of actual in-depth criticism then I could at least feel like a line was crossed because it's sort of like sending people out to trash someone's work for no good reason. If the writers are complaining because the reviews were actual in-depth criticism that brought up both good and bad points and they can't handle anything less then "Amazing story, I loved it :) :) :)" then I have somewhat less sympathy.

[kippi]

I believe it was less "I didn't write it for YOU, you non-fannish pleb" and more "I didn't write it for you, you're not into inflation and have never played a Sonic game in your life. What the hell are you doing reading my clearly labelled Sonic inflation fic?".

[(Anonymous)]

While I completely agree with the idea that the stories are public, anyone can read and review them and the whole closed space thing is bogus, I also think the whole assigning students to reviews some stories was ridiculous. You don't tell students to send critiques to authors on their twitter or tumblr. It's especially weird reviewing stories when you haven't read the canon.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm annoyed with the 'critical reviews' assignment because the trouble could so easily have been avoided by just having them turn the critical comments in rather than submitting them on the website.

I was a lot more bothered by the assignment to create a new body of fanworks that would get fifty reviews.

[(Anonymous)]

CAn we stop with this insistence that the reviews were horribly harsh and critical and mean?

They were pretty bland reviews. Yeah, a lot of them talked about not getting or liking something, and a lot of them nitpicked grammar, especially when they didn't know the canon well enough to talk about anything else. But they were a long, long way from the rage-y flames people keep painting them as. Mostly they all fell into about what you'd expect from assigned critique: "I liked X. Y needed work. I think your Z is good."

[(Anonymous)]

I wouldn't want to be read and analysed by a group of people without my permission. I do this for fun and to contribute stories to fansites for other fans that they wil hopefully enjoy. To my mind that is very different to being a published author of a story or document. Noone publishes fic with the expectation that a room full of people unconnected with fandom will read and pick apart your writing.

I don't see why we need to label this though. I just showed up too.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey you totally belong just as much as anyone!!!
I understand why you might get this gut reaction, but the people who talk as if fandom is an organized cohesive group are just understanding their experience differently and calling it universal. People do that! You don't have to 'pay dues' and spend your entire life online to understand the history and norms of fandom spaces (or understand that those change from fandom to fandom!) and I think these students failed at keeping both academic and fandom norms in mind at the same time.r with it.