[ SECRET POST #1892 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1892 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[How I Met Your Mother]


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03.
[White Collar]


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04.
[Smash]


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05.
[How I Met Your Mother]


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06.
[Revenge]


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07.
[The Hunger Games]


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08.
[Yu-Gi-Oh]


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09.
[White Collar]


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10.
[Obscurus Lupa, Subspecies]


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11.
[Castleville]


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12.
[Gintama]


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13.
[The Cat Returns]


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14.
[Mythbusters]


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15.
[Invasion of the Body Snatchers]


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16.
[Titanic]


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17.
[All Dogs go to Heaven]


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18.
[Hatoful Boyfriend]


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19.
[Pokemon]


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20.
[Phantom of the Opera]


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21.
[The Middle]


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22.
[life on mars]


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23.
[Scrubs]


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24.
[A Goofy Movie]


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25.
[Nerimon/Alex Day]


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26.
[Katie McGrath]


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27.
[Chuck]


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28.
[Top Chef Season 9]


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29.
[The Vampire Diaries]


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30.
[The Vampire Diaries]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 045 secrets from Secret Submission Post #270.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Feminism is about procuring rights for women, not "choices". The ability to make choices can only come about by creating a society where women aren't limited, and can really explore all the possible options. We ain't there yet.

(frozen comment)

[amethyst-rei.livejournal.com]

Feminism is about procuring rights for women, not "choices".

If that's your idea of feminism then you can keep it.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Good to know we've got no choice in anything.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Most women don't. Most women are poor and surrounded by toxic messages about how their womanness makes them inferior. What, is this news to you?

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Then the issue is poverty. Poor people, of all gender, don't have choices.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Thisthisthis.

(frozen comment)

[marshwiggledyke.livejournal.com]

Wow ok.

(frozen comment)

[luxshine.livejournal.com]

uhm... if they have the choice to be kept women...by choice and not by obligation, it's a choice. Maybe not your choice or my choice, but a choice.
It's when they're forced to be kept women when it's anti-feminist.

(frozen comment)

[hikari87.livejournal.com]

How about the right to make our own choices?

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Silly, women can't make their own choices. We just have to wait around for someone else to tell us what our choices are. As long as it's not men, it's okay!

(frozen comment)

[insanenoodlyguy.livejournal.com]

You have some very limited options there then. Women can't make choices, men can't make choices for them...

So what your saying is... we need aliens in on this. Aliens who do not correspond to our gender physiology.

Or hermaphrodites rule.

Unless your not talking about physiology.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

A+

noodle i love you.

(frozen comment)

[herongale]

Actually, this is totally correct. I was reading some feminist theory the other day and it was talking about how the feminist movement has kind of derailed itself a bit by making everything about choice, as if a woman's choices come free of context and pressure from society. The choices women make will never be as free as we want them to be if they come in the context of not having fully equal rights. Rights are more fundamental than choice.

I mean, consider a woman who is raised in a closed Christian community and "chooses" to be a stay-at-home mom and have 14 children, one who got married young and maybe didn't even finish high school. People can argue that women in those situations choose to be like that, but isn't it more likely that they never really had a choice to do anything else to begin with? Without the right to be treated as fully equal to boys, and the right to grow up free of harassment and demeaning messages that cause women to devalue their own worth, the so-called choice a woman might have just might be delusion instead.

(frozen comment)

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

Without the right to be treated as fully equal to boys, and the right to grow up free of harassment and demeaning messages that cause women to devalue their own worth, the so-called choice a woman might have just might be delusion instead.

A million times this. I never understood the skepticism against the "as long as it's her choice, she's doing it right" brand of feminism until it was explained this way. When misogyny is so heavily ingrained in society that women internalize it and believe themselves to be lesser beings without even realizing it, it's hard to tell when a choice is really a choice and not just the result of careful manipulation over the last few millennia.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

In other words, women are not their own person and we should question every "choice" they make (especially if it goes against with what I would do) .

Seriously though, where does the line get drawn? When do we stop questioning everything a woman does an trust that she knows what's best for herself? And who exactly gets to decide if a woman is doing something because she really wants to do it and not because she's forced to by society?

(frozen comment)

[dorknessrising.livejournal.com]

In other words, women are not their own person and we should question every "choice" they make

Yes. We aren't our own people when we're constantly bombarded with messages from society that say otherwise. As long as pressure from gender roles factor into our choices, they aren't truly ours, and we have to be aware of that.

We stop questioning everything we do when we are given the same rights and equal treatment and are free from oppressive expectations specifically tied to our gender. Until then? Yes, we examine our choices and why we're making them, and whether it's what we really want or what we think we want because that's what we've been told we're supposed to want.

I don't believe in shaming or browbeating any woman for her choices; just in encouraging all women to examine why they make the choices they do. There's nothing wrong with simply questioning why you're doing something. Hell, if more people thought before choosing, the world would be far less screwed up right now.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

So I can never make my own choices?

You know what, that theory can fuck right off, as well as anyone who believes it. I am not a lesser being and I can make my own damn decisions. If you don't like that you can sit the fuck down and keep your mouth shut.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Until you bother to think about what you're doing and why you're doing it, you will always be a lesser being, regardless of what's between your legs.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I agree that context does play a big part in the decisions that people make, and that societal pressure and misogyny are a big part of that context for women. I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I do have a problem when people approach issues from this viewpoint, and then instead of using it to target the issues within our society that create this context, use it as license to essentially judge others and try to convince them that, because their choices are not the choices that they would make personally, they're wrong or anti-feminist. The idea of coming into someone's life and essentially telling them that their choices are somehow wrong because of what you, as someone who is not that person, believe are the circumstances that influenced said choices, has always seemed kind of shitty to me. Obviously, not all feminists who take this stance do that, but there are some, which I think is part of the reason why so many other people in the feminist community place such an emphasis on choice.

(Not saying you do any of this yourself. I've just seen it before - for everything from a woman being a stay at home mom or a sex worker to having an interest in fashion or other so-called "vapid" pursuits - and it never fails to bother me.)

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

This bothers me too. I don't like many "traditionally girly" things, but you know what? Just because I hate them and sometimes even find them vapid, doesn't mean that I'm allowed to police what other people enjoy, particularly writing it off as "You don't really like that, society only tells you you should."

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Exactly! I've seen so many people write off women who are more traditionally "feminine" in their interests, clothing, etc. as vapid or chalk their behaviour and choices up to them being "unenlightened", and then typically claim they're being a jerk to people "for their own good". It's a bit too paternalistic for my tastes, honestly.

(frozen comment)

[herongale]

Oh, I agree that it's actually totally shitty to question any individual woman on her choices.

For me, I think it's more that I think the emphasis in feminist activism should be fighting for equal access and equal rights more than anything else. Being able to make choices for yourself is important, and should be supported for all women, but when it comes towards what to fight for... well, I think that fighting for rights ends up being a lot more concrete, the outcomes a lot more easily measured.

Like, when it comes to abortion, the important thing to fight for is the right to be able to have abortions legally and safely. In terms of whether any given woman will choose to do so, that's still going to be up to her. It bothers me that women can still be pressured into having/not having abortions by family and friends, but I think the way to combat that is to ensure that women can have as much financial autonomy and privacy as possible so as to protect their right to make the decision without coercion.

So things like the right to eduction, the right to work and receive equal pay, the right to safety from harassment, the right to divorce, the right to contraception.... ensuring that all those rights and more are in place are what we can do to protect free choice. What we should NOT be doing is questioning women about the choices they do make.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

It depends on the choice. In the secret OP's case, if she wants to marry someone who is violent, controlling, and abusive just because he has money? You better believe I'm going to question her choice. Possibly her sanity, too.

(frozen comment)

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

I mean, consider a woman who is raised in a closed Christian community and "chooses" to be a stay-at-home mom and have 14 children, one who got married young and maybe didn't even finish high school. People can argue that women in those situations choose to be like that, but isn't it more likely that they never really had a choice to do anything else to begin with?

If she was forced into that life by her situation, she's not choosing it. If she actually chooses it - and I'm pretty sure the concept of choice inherently implies "more than one option" and somewhat implies "more than one viable option" - then that's her business.
These things are also not in any way mutually exclusive: if you spread the word that women are equal to men, and change the institutions so that women actually are equal to men, some of the women in those communities will still choose to marry young and be stay at home moms with fourteen kids. Because equality brings other options, but doesn't mean those women have to choose them.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Even with other options available, social conditioning is the biggest hurdle to get over. You'll still have a lot of women "choosing" to be like that because it's what her mother and grandmother and great-grandmother did and it she doesn't want to be disowned by her family and kicked out of her church.

Believe me, I live in a city full of such women. Having more options doesn't mean the social stigma of breaking tradition is gone.