[ SECRET POST #1947 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #1947 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 068 secrets from Secret Submission Post #278.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[fscom.livejournal.com]

14. http://i44.tinypic.com/14v2tkw.jpg

(frozen comment)

[ninety6tears.livejournal.com]

Ehehhehh um, FIRST of all, I have very little sympathy for somebody who gets their ship bashed if they're going to pretend that it's the same as getting bullied. I'm pretty fucking sure the latter is far worse even when it's not the type of bullying that makes people suicidal. You feel "overlooked"?! People should protect your shippy little feelings before they worry about people who are abused for their looks or their race or their sexuality or their disabilities?

And what the fuck, you can't just generalize the entire fandom as a bunch of big meanies because some of them are really ridiculous about their ships to the point that you think there's some kind of hypocrisy in the effort. You know, I'm so tired of saying that there are a lot of cool people in this fandom (comparatively speaking) and I think this may be the very last time I actually try.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with all of this. Every fandom has horrible people in it, because groups of people tend to be a varied bunch. But ship disagreements, ship bashing, or even ship wars being compared to bullying? Please. Some subsection of the internet doesn't like the same romances that you, and this is in no way comparable to swirlies and broken glasses.

(frozen comment)

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

I read the comment as "If we agree that making another person feel bad in any way isn't alright, then why do we do it to each other?" The last line is unfortunate, but it doesn't invalidate a pretty good point.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Way to jump to conclusions about the OP's situation.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for this. I was bullied (physically, emotionally, sexually, and verbally) both at school and by my stepdad up until high school (I moved away and was successfully invisible during those four years) to the point that I was suffering severe depression and had suicidal thoughts constantly. It took me over a decade to finally get over the feelings of worthlessness, self-hatred and shame over what happened to me (luckily there's free therapy at my college for full-time students, which finally helped me realize just a couple of years ago that what happened wasn't my fault, and I hadn't deserved it). There are still days where it hurts to remember it, but I'm in a much better situation now and I can focus my thoughts elsewhere, and hearing news about campaigns against bullying always makes me feel wonderful, because I don't want anyone to ever have to go through what I did.

I think it's horrible and selfish for the OP to think that if he/she doesn't get full protection against people disagreeing with or hating on his/her ships, then no one deserves help against bullying (okay, he didn't say that explicitly, but he makes it pretty clear that he/she doesn't really care about the way others are treated, only him/herself) That's just cruel, and it leads me to believe that said person has never actually had to suffer bullying in the real world.

There have been one or two instances where someone online has said something "mean" to me, but you just delete it and move on... for one thing, people are more bold online due to their anonymity, and arguing with the person is inviting more emails and messages, sometimes from even more people, into your life. (example: I once saw a forum where a guy was complaining that everyone thinks his bondage furry art is creepy and how everyone is an asshole. I tried being nice to him, telling him that it's okay to enjoy the things he drew if that's what made him happy, but that he had to understand that not everyone NEEDS to have the same opinions he did. I thought he'd understand, but instead he threw a childish fit, complete with extra vowels to draw out words and numerous exclamation points about how un-creepy it was and everyone needs to love it. As you can imagine, he invited a lot of criticism upon himself, and earned himself a spot on Encyclopedia Dramatica very soon after)

Personally, I've been able to avoid online bullying, because I'm in a situation where I can just ignore people who leave rude comments and just remove myself from the situation. In real life, you rarely have the luxury of cutting those people out of your life if they are in your school/family/workplace.

(frozen comment)

[smittenlotus.livejournal.com]

I'm tempted to call troll. But if not, wow. You're just insanely dumb.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Really not the same thing. But why not start your own anti-bullying group within the fandom? Why not be encouraged and inspired by this instead of just being a mopey molly and feeling sorry for yourself. Be the change you want to see in the world, and all that jazz.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

A fandom is not a single entity. A few people being buttholes about shipping doesn't mean the whole group is suddenly hypocritical when there's an anti-bullying campaign. This is especially true with such a huge fandom; I mean it is like half a century old.

(frozen comment)

[with-rainfall.livejournal.com]

OP, if you're being consistently targeted because you write slash/het/femslash, I sympathise, because I've come across people like that and they're NOT pleasant.

I suggest: a) you talk to the mods of whatever community/ies you frequent. b) if the mods won't or can't do anything, stop associating with that comm/person.
Join other communities where you can share your fic. Even some multi-fandom communities like comment_fic are peaceful and drama-free. It's all about who the mods are and how they manage the place.
c) Be assertive. Tell the person you don't give a rat's arse, it's a free country, and you'll continue to write whatever it is you're writing.

I understand the point of your secret, and I have my doubts about the success of a fandom-fuelled campaign, but at the same time I think it's selfish of you to "feel overlooked" when school bullying is such a serious issue and can be extremely damaging if it's not stopped at the source. Whereas you are relatively anonymous and it's (hopefully!) not as if people are picking on you about personal things like age, sexual orientation, disability social skills etc. It's only fandom-related things, which don't necessarily reflect on you as a person.

(Also, I have no idea what "stuff ships" are, so maybe I'm missing something.)

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

This secret is incredibly selfish. I understand that online bullying can be tough, and that things that start out as silly ship wars can sometimes get out of hand, and that you can feel isolated within fandom. However, it is not the same thing as offline bullying. You are, to a certain degree, anonymous online known only by your LJ account or screen name or whatever, and you can sign off whenever you want. You can choose to take yourself out of those communities or fandom spaces and find better accepting ones. These are hobbies, and realistically if they stop being fun you can always find other hobbies to fill the space. Kids being bullied in school do not have these choices. They can't sign off, they have very little choice about going to school each day and who they are forced to associate with. It's not about hobbies, it's about everyday life.

It also lacks empathy. So you feel awful because you think you're being bullied. You seem to understand the emotional toll this can take, so I would think you'd be happy that while you may feel overlooked, at least someone out there is caring and doing something about bullying. Just because you don't feel personally touched by this campaign you wish others to continue suffering too? It's just selfish and spoiled and mean spirited.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Someone vocally disagreeing with your ship is not bullying. If they are hunting you down for it, beating you up, or cyber-stalking you - please try again.

(frozen comment)

[writerserenyty.livejournal.com]

Trek fandom is HUGE, though. There are so many people involved in it that it really doesn't seem all that feasible to go "let's stop ship bashing everywhere." Also it's so big that it's not like the people doing this are necessarily the ones doing the bashing.

(frozen comment)

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

Not a Trekkie by any means, but if the nastiness is anything like the type in my fandom, then yeah, the irony is eyebrow raising. You make a good point, but I suppose it'll be overlooked because people will jump all over the last sentence. And because apparently there's a finite amount of sympathy/empathy in the world and if you feeling bad isn't "as bad as" someone else, then your unhappiness is invalid.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Unless you've seen people get cyberstalked or actually harmed in any way for what they ship, then please shut the fuck up. How fucking dare you make a serious problem that's fucking killing real fucking people all about your fucking stupid fandom antics, you miserable piece of shit.

I've been bullied, and I've been treated like shit in fandom for what I shipped. They are not nearly the same thing, for one huge reason: you can get another screenname, another e-mail address, etc. and start the fuck over if you're being "persecuted" over a ship. You can stop frequenting shipwar battlefield communities and forums. You can lock down your LJ/DW/IJ/whatever. Hell, you can turn the fucking computer off.

You don't have this luxury in real life at work or school or even the fucking grocery store. Places you have to go, and can't just find another better one tomorrow. You can avoid "fandom bullying" easily enough. When you're being bullied by people you interact with everyday and who know where the fuck you live, work, go to school, and buy your necessities, sometimes the only way to get out of it is to turn your life off.

(frozen comment)

[shahrizai.livejournal.com]

Wait what I don't even.

Least effective campaign ever: get all the people who get bullied to start an anti-bullying campaign! Who the hell are they trying to reach out to? Now you'll get your ass kicked for being a Trekkie AND anti-bullying!

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I have absolutely no sympathy for people who cry out "INTERNET / CYBER BULLYING!"
You can easily just turn off the computer and go do something with your life.
People who get bullied in real life don't have that luxury.

(frozen comment)

[megalomaniageek.livejournal.com]

Did I suddenly walk into the thread-based dramatic re-enactment of that South Park episode about bullying? The one where all the anti-bullying folks were bullying each other in the bathroom?

(frozen comment)

[strangetwn-god.livejournal.com]

I wonder how much of the shipping wars is people complaining about nameless others engaging in shipping wars?

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

All I can think is how I have no interest in it because they're using the term Trekkers. It's like Trekkie hipsters.

(frozen comment)

[fuchsiascreams.livejournal.com]

Although I'm not into this, I agree: some of the worst bullying by far I've ever seen/been subjected to was online.




(Most of them were SJWs.)

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Pretty sure I know who the OP is, and I have very little sympathy for you. I did at first, but if this is who I think, this is a pattern of behavior and then crying victim.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

The secret being upfront and saying 'THIS IS ABOUT BULLYING' really should've been adequate notice for me to not read the comments, curse my curiosity

I really should've known this would be an incredibly unsafe place for victims of cyberbullying to be and there'd be nothing but victimblaming circlejerk, but here I am getting all riled up about it just the same

I suppose it's my own fault for looking, just like it was my own fault for opening my mouth and making just strangers on the internet put the fear of god in me and confirm that the world is not a place for frightened people with low self-esteem, sigh

being passive-aggressive to strangers doesn't actually make me feel better about things but it's nice to pretend it does

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Am I the only one taken aback by the tone of this thread? There are so many people saying "Well it's not as bad as ____" or "Well you did something to deserve it" or "Well if you did the same thing on another account..."

It's fandom. Is there a single thing you can do in fandom (short of threatening someone or stalking someone; something off the wall like that) that makes you deserve to be bullied? I'm not saying you have to like someone annoying, but when you get into bullying (going out of your way to exclude or mock people)... you're the one crossing the line.

Jeez... it's pretty sickening especially because when fandom is so against victim-blaming elsewhere. I really dislike this idea that you can deserve bullying, or didn't do enough to prevent it. How is that at all acceptable?

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

Here's the thing about online bullying... it is very easy, due to the anonymous nature of being online, to cry wolf. I'm not saying online bullying doesn't exist and I'm not saying that the OP hasn't genuinely been bullied. But I'm weary of this secret because the OP does remind me of someone in Trek fandom who does play the victim card, and often, but is actually the bully herself.

I'll elaborate. Back a couple of years ago, when the Trek fandom was still thriving off of the energy of the Reboot, there were a lot of ugly things going on. This is the nature of fandom. I've yet to see a fandom escape it. Anyway, there would be a small handful of people in each ship that would take shipwars to extreme and less than hospitable measures. This was unfortunate, of course it is, but this person REFUSES TO LET IT GO. She brings it up here, she brings it up at ohnotheydidnt, she brings it up to the shipper comms. It's been at least two years since the bulk of the the shipwars were at their worst, and she refuses to let it die by consistently referring to it. She'll link to essays written two years ago. She equates someone commenting on an icon being inappropriate to bullying. She'll make locked posts in the rival ship comm about how 'that other evil ship is out to get me, why aren't you lot out there defending me! For the love of god, buy into my wank! Let's get the drama started!'

She keeps pointing out this one post one idiot made when ZQ came out that said something like 'this means Spock is gay' but what she always neglects to mention? When the poster created that post almost ALL the comments in reply to it was shippers telling the poster that he/she was out of line for comparing the actor to the character he plays. There were several people on my flist genuinely upset about the content of that post. In fact, anytime anything wanky is posted on the comm in question, numerous people come forward to say 'stop it, just stop'. Does she ever acknowledge this? No she does not. Of course not, difficult to play the victim if you paint an entire picture now isn't it?

Basically what it comes down to is she is an attention seeker. It's all very 'look at me, look at me'. The ship for which she is on a gun-ho campaign to smear through heavy-handed defamation has been actively trying to avoid her (I would know because I'm one of them), trying to get over all of the nastiness that happened in the past and just concentrate on our ship but she refuses to let it die (I secretly suspect this is because she doesn't like to be ignored). Only a very small portion of a ship of thousands still participate in shipwars, actually only a very small portion of this ship of thousands participated in the shipwars to begin with. Yet she consistently makes blanket statements about the evil ship out to get her, damning the group as a whole for the actions of a few. The bulk of said ship is perfectly happy to exist in our little shipper bubble and ignore any unpleasantness. I know this personally, I have a flist of several hundred people, most of which is composed of members of this ship and I don't see any of them participating in the ship wank.

Through her consistent smear campaign and her inability to LET IT GO, I consider HER the bully. So yeah, I'm taking this secret with a grain of salt. I'm sure some people are genuinely being bullied online and that sucks, but there are also those who use the 'I'm being bullied' creed to garner sympathy with dubious intentions.