[ SECRET POST #2622 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2622 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 076 secrets from Secret Submission Post #375.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

08. http://i.imgur.com/1nHUeoT.png

[(Anonymous)]

The 'Madoka is such a feminist anime!!" thing is always so hilarious. Anyone who thinks that Gen Urobochi would write a feminist story doesn't know a shit about the man.

[morieris]

I saw a wonderful powerpoint on tumblr about this...

[(Anonymous)]

In the case of Madoka at least, you can discuss it in terms of feminism without knowing the cultural context. As Urobuchi has expressed a lot about how it isn't intended to be feminist, compares the plot to Al-Qaeda, etc. So you don't really need to interpret or infer anything in regards to the creator's intent when it comes to that anime.

[(Anonymous)]

Hmmm. No fan of SJWs here, but somehow I'm getting an unpleasant vibe of "Well I know Japanese culture" from your secret. Almost as though you're trying to say, "Don't you talk about this stuff unless you can talk about it like me."

[rubbertea]

tbh some of them don't seem to have an understanding of gender and feminism to begin with, let alone in the context of a different culture

[feotakahari]

I might believe more in respecting other cultures if I respected American culture. But the Americans I admire most are largely ones whose ideas aren't part of mainstream culture. I don't see any reason to put Japanese culture on a higher pedestal. (And it's not like Japanese writers are helplessly bound to write within cultural expectations any more than Americans are.)

what culture?

[(Anonymous)]

I think I'm missing something obvious here, but what culture pov are you talking about?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, a lot of people do not grasp the concept of intersectionality at all. And not just when it comes to different cultures, but when it comes to different races and classes, as well. There's a reason that a lot of people have a problem with feminism because it appears to be only for white, middle class Western women.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. Most of the time they don't understand to begin with. Particularly if they're claiming Japan is overly feminist.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree with the sentiment behind this secret, but if you're trying to argue that Sailor Moon should NOT be considered a feminist icon I may be forced to bust a cap in your ass.

[republicanism]

yeah i agree. i don't read a lot of discussions about feminism in anime but i have read them about gender. weird how many of these people claim to be against anything approaching colonialism or cultural appropriation but are totally OK with imposing western beliefs about gender onto japanese characters and creators.

[(Anonymous)]

I understand where you're coming from, but... how to put it. I feel sometimes like I'm being told that because I'm not Japanese, I'm not allowed to be troubled by the presentation of characters like Naoto or Chihiro, or that I'm wrong when I feel that some of their experiences resonate with me as a trans person.

[(Anonymous)]

AHHH I was trying to think of what this all reminded me of and then I just remembered: the "Jasmine is trans*" blogger's response to all the wank. They were like, "I just wanted to highlight that there have been trans* people throughout history" and suchlike, and I'm like, "good job being progressive, person who clearly has no idea how gender worked in pre-Islamic Arabia and who is overlaying it with zer own cultural biases!"

[insanenoodlyguy]

SJW not understanding the full context of whatever the fuck they are talking about is actually what they are doing the majority of the time.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not really sure what to say to this unless I'm presented with specific examples. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that this occurs, but does that mean ALL of these conversations are wrong?

Good storytelling can often cross cultural boundaries (in fact, for many storytellers that's what they want... it's more profitable) so surely people from different countries should be allowed to speak about these stories?

I'm not saying there aren't some ridiculous viewpoints out there, but I feel like this secret is coming off a little strangely...

[illiadandoddity]

I have mixed feelings about this, because on one hand, no, the average American feminist probably doesn't understand the subtleties of Japanese culture and how a piece of media is viewed over there and is highly likely to misinterpret the intended meaning.

On the other hand, I think sometimes sexist things can be egregious enough that you can't just excuse it as "oh, that's their culture". If, for example, you have a scene where a guy gropes a girl, she gets mad at him, and he plays it off like he was just joking (I've seen that more than once in more than one series), I think we can still judge that guy as being an asshole whether or not the author thought it was a serious problem or not.

[applemagpie]

Add sexuality to the list.

[toshi_hakari]

I will never get the discussion about Chihiro's gender. Hell, that there even is one blows my mind. Because after playing Dangan Ronpa (or watching/reading) Let's Plays) and carefully reading Chihiro's dialogue/lines, it should be blatantly obvious.

(That being said, I'm all for headcanons and genderbending)

[(Anonymous)]

I get very tired of this as well. Especially on Tumblr.

A lot of white nerds try to make judgment calls about Japan based on cartoons. Tumblr also tries to shield Japanese people from "offensive" content in American entertainment as if we're fragile, thin-skinned children. When we try to call out this willful ignorance and racism, we're chased off and told that we're not really Japanese, we're just trolls who are trying to make people feel bad. Tumblr fandom uses minorities as martyrs for their own personal vendettas and to fish for compliments, only to brush them aside and shout them down if those minorities complain about it. Tumblr fandom especially doesn't care about us or our culture. They only care about patting themselves on the back.

[(Anonymous)]

As others have said.

Cultural understanding is important. Context is important, and feminism isn't 100% black and white.

But culture isn't an excuse. Equality can't depend upon cultural relativism, nor can human rights and general morality.

That being said, if in your secret you mean, fans often interpret things from a "western feminism" viewpoint that Japan really doesn't have, that's fair. That Attack on Titan woman (Hange?) comes to mind. Western feminists, particularly the tumblr sort, love to interpret her as trans or whatever, and that's fine. Or some character as genderqueer, whatever. But the author probably didn't intend that, because understanding and even awareness of those issues is very scarce in Japan.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree 100%, OP.

[iggy]

I think it's okay to discuss how it comes across to you and how you feel after you watch it (if it empowers you, that's more than fine), but we really are divorced from the culture and it is definitely important to make sure we're not acting as if our opinions are authorial intent.

[(Anonymous)]

I couldn't give a damn about SJW discussing, period.

Oh, you're insulted, little sjw? OK, dear, that's nice.

[(Anonymous)]

*long sigh* At this point, I think Western (especially American) feminism is too pervasive throughout the internet to make a difference.