[ SECRET POST #4928 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #4928 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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04. https://i.imgur.com/D25cLFc.png
[Emma 2020, OP warned for male nudity (from the back)]


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05.
[Star Wars Expanded Universe, resized]


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06. https://i.imgur.com/R7v6vL6.png
[365 Days, OP warned for image of a dub/non-con sexual situation]


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07. [SPOILERS for Far Cry 5 and Far Cry New Dawn]



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08. [SPOILERS for The Magnus Archives]



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09. [WARNING for sexual assault]



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10. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia]






















Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #705.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. [WARNING for discussion of transphobia]
https://i.imgur.com/qx8pEhV.png

[(Anonymous)]

You seem to be under the impression that like, butch transwomen and femme trans men don't exist? They do, though. Some people even transition then do drag as their assigned gender at birth.

Like you're right, boys can be feminine and express themselves in traditional feminine ways! And so can trans boys lol. Doesn't make them not trans, or boys

[(Anonymous)]

in b4 b-but trans trenders on Tumblr. Like teenagers are ever concrete or sure of themselves about any other identity thing? Let 'em explore. Check back when they're 30, and you'll have your answers

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a woman who's kinda completely indifferent to my gender. My circle of friends used to be all-female 10 years ago but most of them have come out as transmen or nb's since. I secretly had these thoughts like, are some of you suuuure you're just not having a misogyny and trying to cope by transitioning? You can be any kind of woman you want y'know?

But then I figured, if transitioning DID turn out to be a stupid mistake for them, that's not my problem at all and it's pointless for me to worry about it. So I ended up just distancing myself from the whole topic. It was never my business to begin with; I don't have to understand it in order to be cool with it. They're nice normal people no matter what labels they're putting on themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think JKR is TERF scum either. I also agree with your points.

[(Anonymous)]

I haven't read the manifesto or really much of anything in this mess but a few tweets but I'm with you, OP.

Do I think transwomen deserve all the basic human rights and to live the life the way they feel they should've been born as? Absolutely. Do I think kids exhibiting traits that are traditionally seen as belonging to the other gender should automatically be seen as trans? No because that's literally a part of the problem with gender expectations, starting with blue vs pink... People who feel their biology doesn't match their identity obviously exist and should have a way of changing that but it feels like rn there's this push to label people who feel their interests and likes don't match their biology as trans, too, and that's not the way to go.

I am against transwomen in female sports because the reason for separation of sports is biological, not societal. If Bruce Jenner transitioned at 25 and competed as a woman, the competition would not be fair because she would've had an advantage. Imagine if Lebron James transitions now and switches over to the WNBA?

It sucks saying I don't think you should be allowed to do this because of the way you were born but at the same time, 99% of people can't do sports at the highest level because of the way they're born (too short, too slow, whatever) so it's not like they're being denied something that everyone else can do.

It's more complicated in youth sports because telling kids they can't train is wrong and transitioning that starts pre-puberty stops the development of some masculine traits but also idk if kids even have an identity one way or the other before puberty. Basically, this is a very complex matter and it's not as clear cut as well she's now a girl and that's all there is to it.

[(Anonymous)]

Who the fuck says if you’re feminine/masculine you’re automatically transgender?

[(Anonymous)]

The way you ask makes a huge difference. And where. There's a lot of places where people will assume bad faith with these questions because people are so used to hearing them in bad faith, just meant to pick apart their identity.

And it's not about acting a specific way. There's so much I'd love to do but can't because people would see that and dismiss my gender because I'm clearly 'acting like a (my assigned gender at birth)' and that absolutely hurts. These people hurting me aren'tusually trans people, these are cis people who have their specific ideas on what it means to be trans and if you don't fit then you must be lying.

[(Anonymous)]

You realize that "transphobia" doesn't always mean a direct "I hate trans people", right? Like how homophobia doesn't mean just the "gay people should die" crowd, it also includes the "well I don't hate gays but I think they should shut up about it" crowd.

JKR IS transphobic because of the way she frames things and the way she talks about trans people. It doesn't mean she's getting out the pitchforks and torches. Likewise, some of the things you're saying here ARE transphobic. Why aren't transwomen women? You didn't mention chromosomes or surgery so what's the diagnostic? Why does it matter for your daily life? Why do you think the masculine girl/feminine boy thing is a bigger problem now, or has anything to do with trans people, rather than any other time? Tomboys are often mistaken for lesbians--should we be having a talk about lesbians and their influence on gender too?

[(Anonymous)]

I feel you so much, OP. I 100% support the rights of trans people to live as whatever gender they are, but there is parts of the rhetoric surrounding the trans movement that I find to be highly questionable. And like you, I definitely feel that I can't say these things without being accused of being a transphobe.

I don't think Rowling is a transphobe either, becaues I know that I support trans rights yet still feel like I'm a part of her "silent majority". I don't think she's being a particularly helpful voice in the debate, but neither are the people screaming at her for the sin of not adhering to their tribal language. In a world where conversion therapy, legal discrimination and hate crimes against trans people abounds, the target of their rage is a woman who pointed out that the vast majority of people who menstruate are, in fact, women?

The usage of the word TERF is particularly mind-boggling. Do these people even KNOW what a radfem sounds like?

[(Anonymous)]

I think some of what JKR said was problematic, and I don't think she fully understands the issues she's talking about. However, the way everything she said seems to have been interpreted through the most negative possible lens, while any of the positive, supporting things she said have been summarily dismissed, is something I find jarring, and just generally don't agree with.

Beyond that, I agree with pretty much your whole comment, OP. :)

[(Anonymous)]

Oh good. More of this stuff again.

Well Op it's clear as day that you'll never change your mind, but you're gonna get the attention you need here without the repercussions of being sans anonymity so you have fun with that and see you at the next so-called secret.

[(Anonymous)]

You and most people outside of Twitter and Reddit. Unless she slips and says tr**** this "controversy" will have little lasting effect.

[(Anonymous)]

The problem is that the things that JKR brought up, and the things that you bring up, *are* talked about. They have been talked to death and refuted a thousand times. In fact, they're more or less just the standard litany of points that are consistently cited by anyone who wants to call into question the validity of trans rights or trans identities, an absolute catalog of anti-trans arguments. That's probably why it's difficult to get straight answers to questions like these on the Internet - because a post like this looks, to the casual observer, pretty much indistinguishable from the kinds of posts anti-trans bigots make when they're presenting their case. If an anti-trans bigot were writing a post about why JKR is right, it would probably look exactly like this post.

So there are various response to all of these questions. For instance, women's sports is a really interesting one, because there's this perception that trans women athletes are dominating all of the womens' sports and forcing cis women out, but it's hard to find really meaningful examples of this happening - what happens is that any time a trans woman wins, people say she's dominating the sport, even if she wins 1 out of 18 times.

Similarly, I don't think trans people are enforcing gender stereotypes. My experience is that trans people are comfortable with and encouraging of gender non-conforming behavior. I can't speak for every trans person in existence (and something that anti-trans bigots will often do is point to an isolated person or community somewhere on Tumblr and act like it's representative of trans people as a whole), but generally trans people are the ones arguing that gender identities are complicated social categories. Those opposed to trans people are the ones arguing that gender identities are a straightforward consequence of a person's physical body. Likewise, it's good that you were a tomboy, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's also the case that some people who were tomboys were trans men, and would have embraced that identity if the conceptual vocabulary existed at the time. Neither one threatens or contradicts the other. And ultimately, trans people have consistently answered all of these questions many times over. People just don't accept the answers because they are committed to not considering trans women wpmen.

So, I think that none of the issues that you raise really provide a good reason to be skeptical of trans people. Despite that, they do get repeated and promulgated a lot as part of the case for transphobia. And that really gets down to the problem with what JKR did - she elevated these issues and criticisms that are part and parcel with the anti-trans movement. someone might have all these questions on an individual basis and want a serious conversation about them, but JKR had already done a lot of research on the topic when she decided to talk about her concerns and knew what she was saying, which was that these were reasons to oppose trans acceptance. I disagree with that politically and morally, I think it's an unacceptable thing to do the same way I think about any other kind of outright bigotry, and so ultimately I have to reject JKR's stance.

[(Anonymous)]

http://itequals.com/gender/why-i-love-being-trans-5-positives-about-being-a-trans-man/

[(Anonymous)]

“Being a living trans person means vigilance. For a non-passing trans person, there is no safe space. It is not who we are kissing, but our very heights, our voices, and the size of our hands that catalyze hatred and violence. Forget activism; simply negotiating one’s world every day, constantly judging, adjusting, scanning one’s surroundings, and changing clothes to go from one role to another can be overwhelming.
Add to that cases of family disownment, poverty, homelessness, HIV. When a recent study of transgender youth reports that half their sample had entertained thoughts of suicide, and a quarter of them had made at least one attempt, I am not surprised.”
― Ryka Aoki

[(Anonymous)]

1. JKR's comments have been debunked by quite a few people. This twitter thread (https://twitter.com/Carter_AndrewJ/status/1270787941275762689) is a pretty good start. Sarah Z and Jammidodger on youtube both did videos (Sarah Z is cis, Jammidodger is a trans guy).

2. As a trans man, I'm so sick of the "I was a tomboy so I might have been ~transed~" narrative people throw out. Because it's so unlikely. Allowing kids a chance to explore their gender and get to know who they are is a good thing. Not all of them are going to be trans and that's fine, no one is giving kids HRT. Also puberty blockers have been found to be perfectly safe and reversible.

TL;DR: no one is transing kids, JKR is a terf and as a trans person in fandom I'm absolutely terrified at the number of people I see who are also terfy or terf-adjacent.

[(Anonymous)]

OP, I'm a cis woman who was a tomboy and so were most of my female friends, and I hated being told that I was doing it because I wanted to be a boy. My friends, if they were telling the truth, felt the same. Because we knew we were girls and we liked being girls. So I'm just gonna take a wild guess (and by guess I mean I'm gonna repeat what actual trans guys have said) that if a tomboy really is acting that way because they want to be a boy, it's because - wait for it - they're a boy!

[(Anonymous)]

Trans women are women. I flatly refuse to use the term cis. I intensity disliked when people called me a pregnant person instead of pregnant woman. We need to have a discussion about how we organise things like sports. I am flat done with being lectured by self appointed trans allies about how we should treat trans people (as citizens with equal rights and access to specialised health care if necessary and sympathetic services).

Some of the above is enough to have me labeled as transphobic. In a few years when tempers cool we will all have this discussion. Also I’ve asked dude and no man is being asked to bend over backwards to accomodate trans men.

[(Anonymous)]

The difference is that a tomboy WANTS to be a boy. A Trans person feels like they ARE a boy.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry people are attacking you, OP. You are completely right, and we should be able to discuss these issues without being called transphobes (or ignorant).

The science on virtually everything to do with trans issues is not settled. And it won't be for a generation, because that's how long it takes to do a proper study. A five year outcome is irrelevant when you're talking about people's entire lives.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

I feel alienated by both sides in this debate and it's to the point where I've stopped caring and I'm just going to let other people figure things out. I'm not going to support a cause that constantly tells me I'm supporting it wrong. I'm also not going to default to the other side because that makes absolutely no sense.

[(Anonymous)]

I think you should talk to your trans friends about this rather than to Fandom Secrets. Best case scenario, they can explain their perspective in a way that maybe makes more sense to you than whatever a bunch of anonymice having an internet argument say.

Worst case scenario, if you end up being intractable and unreceptive to their POVs, they at least know that up front and can decide whether they want to remain friends with the person you really are rather than with the supportive ally you've been pretending to be.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't feel medicinally transitioning children is okay but I also understand that it can be deeply traumatic to have a body which you see as 'wrong'.

I've been casually following Jazz Jennings story and I just feel so sorry for her.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm assuming anything I'd have to say on trans people specifically topics has already been said in this thread.

So I'll stick to putting in my opinion that frankly kids of any and all gender identities cis, trans, questioning- should have access to puberty blockers. Like dude, kids as young as 8 can start puberty, there are 12 year olds looking like full grown women out there. In a perfect world those kids would be able to be treated their age and we wouldn't have street harassment or any of that other bullshit, but we aren't in that world and sure, 15-16 year olds aren't that much more equipped to handle it, but a 15-16 year old is a whole lot more equipped to deal with bullshit that 8-13 year olds.

Kill the whole argument of "should trans kids be allowed puberty blockers", with give all kids the option for them. Kids who don't want to put it off don't have to, kids who need to have the opportunity to do so, kids who aren't sure don't have to make a flash decision on the risk that saying no one time means it's impossible forever.