[ SECRET POST #2262 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2262 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #323.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

09. http://i.imgur.com/dAar6Ba.jpg?1

[(Anonymous)]

But the way the universe of the books is constructed, house-elf slavery is basically right.

Don't blame the fans because JKR created a race of beings that want to be enslaved.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Precisely. We must not think of house elves as humans and afford them human wants. This is arrogance. They are inhuman, and have inhuman thoughts.

The house elves know their station. The house elves want their station. And it is our duty to provide them with said station. To allow them to do what the do best for the betterment of their race and ours.

[sugar_spun]

But since they're not human, I don't see anything wrong with that. They're a completely fictitious race that don't even resemble humans like the asari from Mass Effect do. You can't equate them with human oppression unless there's actually some resemblance behind it.

I kind of liked this element about the house elves. The idea that someone wouldn't want to be free is incredibly alien to most of Harry Potter's readers, so alien that it seems that they must be wrong.

Not to mention I'm pretty sure that house elves are actually based on brownies, and much of the mythology surrounding brownies is about how attached they are to their house or "owners".

[(Anonymous)]

that's a bit fucked up though, don't you think lol. to make a situation where slavery is good.

[intrigueing]

But uh, there's a distinction there. House Elves want to serve humans, as in, they have a drive to do household work and take care of humans and do as they're told and stuff. The slavery part, where they actually don't have a choice at all, is NOT portrayed as "right" and the House Elves who want to be enslaved aren't exactly portrayed positively in the book at all. That chapter in Goblet of Fire -- "The House Elf Liberation Front" or whatever -- makes it pretty clear that the House Elves' view of their own enslavement, and the way they treat Dobby for being free, and the way they treat Winky for being a mess, and the way Winky self-destructs when she's free, is all pretty fucked-up.

I mean, it's basically a choice between either being enslaved or not being able to take care of people (which is an essential part of their nature, so I guess it would be comparable to being deprived of sex or daylight or human interaction or something), because like Dobby said, wizards wouldn't hire House Elves when it was customary to enslave them instead.

So yeah, I would totally side-eye fans who try to justify the slavery. I mean, how do they explain Dobby? Dobby wasn't different because he was weird or deviant or something, it was because he either had enough grit and intelligence to realize that taking care of humans =/= being a slave, or was in a terrible enough situation that he decided he'd rather be free than serve the Malfoys. Which is, y'know, a good thing.

[wauwy]

Don't blame the fans because JKR created a race of beings that want to be enslaved.

This, basically.

[fingalsanteater]

Hermione, please, SPEW is never going to be a thing. You can't apply your human morality to magical creatures.

[aubry]

The books themselves are not epic on this front either. I can see how young readers could come away from that confused. Rowling raises the issue with Dobby and SPEW, complicates things when Hermione learns that zeal alone won't address the intricacies of how their oppression works, and then... brushes the entire thing under the carpet and never resolves it at all.

Have you ever noticed what the very last sentiment of the HP books is (before the epilogue)?

[(Anonymous)]

TROOOOOOLL IN THE DUNGEON

[(Anonymous)]

I... have literally never seen anyone do htat. Examples, plz?

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. I can't understand how people think slavery is OK.

[illiadandoddity]

*shrug* House elves are pretty clearly based off of brownies, and with the mythology behind those... I can't bring myself to care about the ownership aspect. The "kick the crap out of them because they're there and I can" aspect, however... that does bother be.

[(Anonymous)]

If I wrote a story about magical negroids who live and love to serve, I know Brits will defend my creative prowess too.

[(Anonymous)]

Go to bed Hermione, no one cares.

[(Anonymous)]

If it bugs you that much, pretend they are like the Ood and there is a secret House Elf lobotomy workshop somewhere in Malfoy Manor and that discovering it is the plot of the sequel. Maybe that is why Draco is going bald?

[cloud_riven]

I found it bizarre that they only served humans. Do the goblins or trolls or whatever have house elves too? It's so magically convenient.

[scherrymouse]

I think the attitude of treating House Elves like possessions is a bad one and partly responsible for the horrible treatment they get from people like the Malfoys. But if this race want to serve, and are happy and not abused in their place of work, and you still protest, you've found yourself in SPEW country, and need to get some directions outta there sharpish. I think they should be like Dobby - paid and with some holidays - and also be given more legal protection and higher status. I think perhaps, with a lot of work and understanding and communication, that could be achieved. But taking work away from them completely, and depriving them of masters? Considering their natures, that in itself seems a bit cruel and disturbing to me.

[(Anonymous)]

BUT THEY LIKE IT~

(Say most HP fans who will respond to this comment.)

Honestly, this is one of the most problematic aspects of the series for me. Yes, most of the elves in the books appear to be 'happy', but fiction doesn't exist solely in itself, there is a whole literary history that is applied. Everything we've ever read that applies to real-world ethics implies slavery is wrong, always. And the fictions that portray slaves as happy in their forced labor are always pointed out as being total fictions and an attempt to make slavery more palatable to people who would be averse to seeing them as real living people. As a result, you do immediately have the response of Katie in Cracked After Hours - someone points out to you that the elves are happy to be enslaved, and you think 'just like the slaves in Uncle Tom's Cabin.' It's very difficult to take it seriously, even though they're magical fictitious creatures. The same problem comes up with the way Goblins are treated in the books, very 'family unfriendly aesop'.

Almost all aspects of the HP novels use magical realism. The whole of the series is meant to be taken through the filter of real life, exploring real world issues through magical means. It's just one of many ways to deconstruct the things in our society. So at this point it sounds totally ridiculous when people say 'but they aren't humans, they're magic creatures that love being slaves!' Especially if you're going to argue that other aspects of the world are meant to be held against real life to get a meaningful reading.

I think JKR wanted to explore some very touchy issues of racial or cultural prejudice, and she created these magical races in order to do that. Maybe the elves are based on Brownies, but there was no need for her to actually include that in her story. It was a choice on her part in order to explore a particular issue, which is the one first presented to us ('slavery is wrong!') and then her execution totally fell apart later. Maybe she has her own prejudices that colored the narrative, but I think it's more likely she just lost interest in the particular issue and as a result the message the books give is distorted and confusing.

[(Anonymous)]

I've never actually met a fan that makes any attempt to justify the slavery of the house-elves... most people seem to think it's awful.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't see a problem with it. They're not human, and as such human laws don't apply to them. The only issue I have is with the wizards who treat them poorly. Were I a wizard I'd totally be on board with having a house elf or five.

Anyway. I think more strides should have been taken to make sure that the elves weren't being abused, but I certainly don't think the owning of house elves should be abolished. In my opinion, as long as they WANT to serve-- which MOST of them do, from what I remember-- then who are we to decide whether they should or not?

[diet_poison]

Hi Hermione!

But in seriousness (if this isn't wankbait which I think it likely - antique but still fun, like the one about James!) house-elves aren't humans and they don't function the same way so

[belacqua]

I think HP fans put a lot more thought into the series than JKR ever did. Makes for very interesting discussions, but ultimately leaves me feeling a bit sad.

[avatarmn]

It's very disturbing to me that people just BELIEVE that house elves want to be enslaved. Especially when we meet one who doesn't. Has no one heard of Stockholm Syndrome?

TL;DR over fictional races...

[tasogare_n_hime]

...Maybe I'm missing the point but I always thought the point of house elves was not the really the slavery thing in and of itself, but that Hermione was fucking wrong trying to force her ideals on them.

Yes house elves definitely need to be treated better, this may eventually include freedom from slavery. But it needs to be done through someone who is going to respect them, listen to what they want, and help them on their own terms. Not going all "White Witch's/Wizard's Burden" on them, and treating them like they're too stupid to know any better.