[ SECRET POST #6006 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #6006 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.


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[From]



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[Youtube channel "Hello Future Me"]



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[Monark]



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09. [SPOILERS for Across the Spiderverse]




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10. [WARNING for transphobia/standard JKR stuff]






















































Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 00 secrets from Secret Submission Post #858.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

10. [WARNING for transphobia/standard JKR stuff]
https://i.imgur.com/KQRaPMk.png

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think that people are surprised, I think people just like getting upset. And it's a really easy thing to feel righteous about without actually having to do anything. It's a safe outrage.

[(Anonymous)]

+1000

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think it's necessary to ~do something about it~ every time you feel upset. Sometimes you just have to vent. That's normal and healthy. Lots of people go beyond healthy venting on this issue without doing anything productive, but your comment is made in deliberate bad faith by ignoring that many people upset about this also do ~do something about it~ such as spreading the word about trans activist groups and charities. Which given many of their positions in life, is about all they are within their power to do. And that's not even to mention the people running these groups and charities and the famous people doing other trans activist work. Like, this isn't just something some terminally online kids are whining about. Despite your little implication that it is.

[(Anonymous)]

This.

[(Anonymous)]

allow only birth woman in pro sports and then we'll talk about how these events are meaningless. I agree with JKR here.

[(Anonymous)]

sa
though no idea about the demands becides the 'female only spaces' that is seen here. Maybe those gatherings are phobic, idk.

[(Anonymous)]

Look up the naturally occurring testosterone levels in professional cis female athletes and how many many cis women have been treated by sports committees for those levels, not to mention the intrusive as hell tests that they were forced to undergo (and which bigots would love to force even child athletes to undergo under the disguise of "defending womenhood") and then you can sit at the adult's table to talk about gender and sports.

[(Anonymous)]

Uh... I guess you've never seen the science on it (hint, there is no possible test that both includes all cis and excludes all trans). Also, does that mean intersex can never be professional sports players? Seems like discriminating against someone based on their birth sex is an asshole move.

[(Anonymous)]

Eat literal shit, TERF

[(Anonymous)]

Nah. Performance levels are comparable between cis women and trans women when it comes to sports.

[(Anonymous)]

I think this is a complicated issue in a lot of ways. I certainly don't support her views that trans women aren't women and that trans men aren't men. They are women and men.

I do think there's a good bit of conversation to be had around the fact that trans women and trans men don't have the same experiences growing up that cis women and cis men do. Men and women are socialized incredibly differently in many parts of the world and, so, when someone crosses the socialization border, it can bring up a lot of complicated situations. For a lot of women, a woman's only space is where they can, sometimes literally, let their hair down. A trans woman entering that space, when they were raised as a man, changes things. Coming out as trans doesn't erase years of socialization as the opposite gender.

I also think it's disingenuous to say there's no difference between a trans woman and a cis woman or a trans man and a cis man. It comes up in sports a lot. A trans woman has the advantage of a biologically male body. They are a woman, but biologically speaking their body is not. This matters when it comes to sports. When it comes to change rooms. (Honestly, I wouldn't be comfortable in a change room with someone whose body was the opposite sex of mine, even if they are the same gender as me. If there's separate stalls, sure, those give privacy, but when I was in school there was one room for girls, one for the guys, and the only 'stalls' were showers.) When it comes to medical treatment.

There's also a lot of really good questions to be asking about hormone therapy for children. Let's be real, pumping anyone up full of hormones is full of a lot of risks. And there's a lot of ethical conversations that should be had around hormones therapy for kids who haven't even begun puberty. We have no long term studies on this and, frankly, kids change their minds sometimes. (Obviously not all kids will--but some will.) And, hormones, especially when started that young, can't easily be reversed.

I don't support her flat out stated views but I do think, in a lot of her posts, there are badly worded but valid questions and points being raised.

[(Anonymous)]

Hormone therapy has been used to treat cis people for a long time, so there actually is a lot of research available. Including hormone therapy for children--puberty blockers have historically been used to treat precocious puberty, and that's pretty much the extent of hormone treatment given to children, despite what the nonstop rumor mills say.

[(Anonymous)]

> A trans woman has the advantage of a biologically male body

Women's sports exists because men were whiny babies about being beat by cis women, so kindly shut the absolute fuck up especially when sports are largely judged by frail white women standards.

TERFS need to just shove a sock in it, literally, and choke on their words a bit.

[(Anonymous)]

You sound like a well-meaning person who's fallen for a lot of TERF talking points. I am not calling you a TERF, but you're close to becoming one. You say that trans women are women and trans men are men, but then basically start to question whether they should be treated like women and men, or like their birth assigned genders. A lot of the things you're saying are also completely wrong (nobody is "pumping kids full of hormones" or denying that the trans experience is different from the cis experience of growing up) and very often the most basic information you'll see debunked if you listen to any trans advocate. I would really suggest doing that if you're genuine in your belief that trans people are valid.

[(Anonymous)]

trans women and trans men don't have the same experiences growing up that cis women and cis men do.

No two people have the same socialization.

It comes up in sports a lot. A trans woman has the advantage of a biologically male body. They are a woman, but biologically speaking their body is not. This matters when it comes to sports.

It's not fundamentally implausible that there could be cases where trans women have advantages over cis women in sports. However, there are 3 important criteria that have to be kept in mind when thinking about this issue. One, the idea that trans women have an advantage should be supported by actual statistics and evidence; it should be possible to statistically demonstrate that a consistent advantage exists, and the conversation can't take place on the level of people saying "well, it stands to reason". Two, responsibility for making rules to address any advantage that exists should rest with sports governing bodies as much as possible, not with political bodies. Three, the least restrictive and discriminatory means of addressing advantages should be preferred whenever possible; so for instance, things like weight classes should be used rather than blanket bans on trans athletes.

What we see in practice is the complete opposite of that. We see political bodies making blanket bans on trans athletes without even an iota of actual evidence to justify the suggestion that such bans are needed. So it's just empirically clear that the actual reason for these bans is bigotry and moral panic, not any actual facts at issue.

(Honestly, I wouldn't be comfortable in a change room with someone whose body was the opposite sex of mine, even if they are the same gender as me. If there's separate stalls, sure, those give privacy, but when I was in school there was one room for girls, one for the guys, and the only 'stalls' were showers.)

I'm not comfortable changing in the same room with anyone of any gender. But there's not necessarily any one-size-fits-all solution for everyone's preferences, and dividing it up on the basis of birth sex isn't a good solution, especially when - again - we know for a fact that there's a huge amount of bigotry and prejudice driving these conversations.

There's also a lot of really good questions to be asking about hormone therapy for children. Let's be real, pumping anyone up full of hormones is full of a lot of risks. And there's a lot of ethical conversations that should be had around hormones therapy for kids who haven't even begun puberty. We have no long term studies on this and, frankly, kids change their minds sometimes. (Obviously not all kids will--but some will.) And, hormones, especially when started that young, can't easily be reversed.

Fuck off.

[(Anonymous)]

Men and women are socialized incredibly differently in many parts of the world

I don't have any statistics to back it up, just what I've observed, but nongender-conforming people have very different experiences and socialization from cismen and ciswomen. And even if a transperson publicly conformed to their sex assigned at birth for most of their life, I would say they had a very different perspective, which does matter in socialization.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, I'll second most of this.

Your last paragraph makes certain valid points, but I do personally think that the harm of making trans-identifying kids go through puberty before allowing them to transition is probably going to result in more harm overall than making puberty blockers available to them if desired. I'm not talking about being able to get them OTC, but I don't think most people are talking about that level of 100% unchecked availability, though.

I generally am of a mind that minors should not be legally permitted to make permanent, elective changes to their persons that will have tangible effects on them for the foreseeable future. With that said, how does that bare out when you have a suicidal fifteen-year-old and based on lengthy conversations with psych professionals, the brunt of their distress seems to be coming from their experience as a trans person who is unable to transition? How not-okay does a minor have to be before the risk that they will later come to regret a permanent choice is outweighed by the certainty of the distress they are experiencing?

[(Anonymous)]

The business with hormones gave me pause, too. I have doctors in my family, and a lot of the reassuring-sounding stuff that I saw being floated to the general public about how "harmless" and "reversible" it was to give testosterone to girls and estrogen to boys was flat out untrue. Now more is coming out: the damage to the skeletal system, the way it screws up growth, the involuntary sterilization, the increased risks for cancer, and the fact that someone who's been on hormones is a lifelong client of the medical system. And this is just skimming the surface of the problems.

I can empathize with trans activists being defensive - many of their assertions really brings out the conservative crazies. But medical interventions tend to be presented in an irresponsibly optimistic way, and it's not doing anyone any favors to pretend widespread unwanted effects are not worth mentioning. When the patients of course will find out, and so will their families, and by now people who have nothing to do with it are asking questions that indicate considerably more knowledge of what can go wrong than they would have had five years ago.

[(Anonymous)]

As someone being called TERF here (and uncaring about it), I think no one under 18 should be allowed to take hormone injections and puberty blockers without parental permission. If you need it that bad and your parents don't allow you, legally emancipate yourself. Move out if you really believe you are trans and get the care you think you need.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh wow, Posie Parker had the nerve to write that?

One of her supporters knocked a woman down with his motorcycle.

Which she seems fine with, apparently?

[tabaqui]

To all the TERFs and other fucking anti-trans ASSHOLES in this thread: fuck you.
Under the guise of 'protect women's sports', my fucking state has now banned transgender CHILDREN from playing sports as their chosen gender.

And guess what? In ALL OF THE STATE, there are literally less than 15 CHILDREN who have wanted to play on their gender's team since like 2015. LESS THAN 15.
So tell me how 'trans athletes' are 'destroying women's sports'.
Fucking insane, willfully ignorant SHITE.

Also, on the heels of this, they have banned gender-affirming care for kids (like puberty blockers) AND for adults in my state, and are gleefully trying to write laws banning transgender people from, basically, living. And surprise! They're also going after LGB people, and oh, yeah, the STARTED by making women in my state 2nd class citizens and taking away their bodily autonomy and forcing TEN YEAR OLDS to bear to term rape-induced pregnancies. Mulling over making abortion a death-penalty offense. Offering money to rat out women who got an abortion or miscarried, because hey - they probably got an abortion, anyway!!

So all this ugly fucking intolerant, ignorant, STUPID bullshite, and the people spouting it, can fuck right off.

Sorry, Case, if this offends, but I am fucking pissed as hell and sick to death of the morons mouthing this ignorant, Christo-fascist shite.

And no, not going to respond to anyone that might reply, I'm too fucking angry to be civil.

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, everybody needs to wake up and smell the money:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLXdoqXbC6k

[(Anonymous)]

This thread made me cry. This is a site I’ve visited for years now and seeing it also succumb to the same terf talking points I see on Twitter is so discouraging. Especially painful knowing most of the people ITT are my age.

[(Anonymous)]

What I don't get is why anyone thinks the politics of a fiction writer really NEED to agree with their opinions on the subject. If you bought an HP book, at one point, what you were paying for was reading it. The people who act like JK's somehow betrayed them by not doing what they would do, indefinitely, seem really nuts to me.