[ SECRET POST #3435 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #3435 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 38 secrets from Secret Submission Post #491.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[fscom]

03. http://i.imgur.com/MTdkFPK.jpg

[kallanda_lee]

See, that's so different from me - I might not always relate (though I sometimes do), but I often find forgiving characters the most admirable. But I don't abandon people easily, I think. I'm inclined to try and understand them from their own human motivations.

[nonnymouscawitz]

I think that's fine. It's hard to relate to people who forgive things that have so personally affected you. Everyone deals with trauma in there own way, and everyone deals with people who've hurt them in their own way. Your way is not wrong and you shouldn't feel bad. Besides, characters are fictional people, not real ones, and they can't be hurt by your actions.

[(Anonymous)]

You must not be very close to your family.

[(Anonymous)]

I could've made this secret. I hate the idea that you should be loyal to family no matter what they do purely because you're related.

[(Anonymous)]

That's fine. Not everything has to be relatable.

What irritates me is when the narrative implies the character would be a bad person or just as bad as the people who mistreated them if they didn't forgive them.

I definitely think there could be more stories out there about people who don't forgive, but also aren't looking for revenge. In fiction it always seems to be one or the other.

[sarillia]

I'm the opposite. I find it nearly impossible to hold a grudge.

[crossy_woad]

I find it hard to forgive any story line that uses rape as a means of character growth for a woman to become strong now, or what the hell ever. I just nope out of it. Please find some originality. Women don't have to be raped as a plot point.

[(Anonymous)]

Is that supposed to be Fingon? (Dat hair.)

[(Anonymous)]

From my perspective, OP, you sound like a real piece of work. Possibly I'm being unfair.

[philstar22]

Redemption and forgiveness are two of my favorite tropes, but only when they are done right. It has to make sense for the characters, and if the person who wronged the other keeps going back and doing it again and the other person keeps allowing them back into their lives, then I don't like it. You can forgive someone and still realize they aren't going to change and that you don't need them in your life. But if the person has actually changed, then I love forgiveness storylines.

[dethtoll]

While I understand where you're coming from, I just wonder where you draw the line. My parents were both control freaks in their own way: dad was a manchild and mom is an emotionally fragile religious weirdo. I was still as close to them both as I could stand (moreso mom than dad.)

[mrs_don_draper]

I'm with you. I feel the same way in real life too.

[(Anonymous)]

I think that is because a lot of stories try to preach morals and forgiveness is an important one.

Though I tend to agree with OP sentiment depending on what what was done. Like some characters forgive someone that tried to kill them or their loved ones... I have to draw the line there. I do love redemption stories but instant forgiveness without proper build up just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[nightscale]

I get you, I can find it interesting to see characters forgive those that hurt them, but I don't understand it because in their shoes I wouldn't do the same.

rhetorical question

[(Anonymous)]

If you knew someone who bullied you through cruel insults and sometimes physically hurt you (like punching, kicking, or throwing), yet everyone says that person is a good kid and he's only really mean to you. Do you think you should forgive him and hope he improves his attitude? Or just try to ignore him and remove yourself from any possible interactions?

To bring it back to fandom related I see a lot of bully type characters where people sympathize with them since they get a tragic backstory, yet they forget the trauma they inflicted on other characters or try to play it down. It honestly bothers me more than if the character is an outright villain type character.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the opposite - I find these characters the most admirable and mature.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you're going to be BFFs with someone. It's not even really about the other person always, as much as it is about you - it shows the strength of your own character, and I don't think there's much that takes more strength than forgiving even your enemies.

[(Anonymous)]

i do hate it when for example, a character has a terrible parent, who shows up in their lives again, they HAVEN'T CHANGED but everyone pressures the main character to forgive the parent because "ITS YOUR MOM/DAD" you HAVE to.
no.
you don't. you don't have to forgive your abuser and let them back into your life even if they gave birth to you and it's a stinky moral.

[(Anonymous)]

I have this problem too, especially if the narrative privileges that point of view to a point of demonizing anyone who can't forgive. I get enough of that perspective from my abusers, thank you very much.

[(Anonymous)]

This "always forgive, it makes you a better person and heals your pain uwu" narrative is seriously damaging to abuse victims who can't follow it. My mother will never be able to forgive my horrifically abusive father (and why should she, he has literally never apologized or even realized he's done anything wrong), yet she finds herself feeling guilty over that and feels there's something wrong with her because of this "forgive abusers" mindset.

[dinogrrl]

I don't necessarily dislike characters who forgive people who've done wrong by them. As long as it makes sense characterization-wise, sure, go for it.

What I DO dislike are stories where it's implied that to NOT forgive people who've done you wrong makes you a bad person, even if the person who did the wrong neither feels remorse nor is making amends for it. Nope, you must forgive them no matter what if you're to be a Good Person.
Bah on that.

Forgiveness is a two-way street, if it's a street that exists at all, and too often it seems like stories forget that.

[wannabe_influential]

I don't dump characters when they forgive family members/friends, but I do get frustrated

If I was strong enough and able to live on my own, I would cut ties with my entire family

[lb_lee]

Sounds like you're somewhat similar to me, OP! I CAN enjoy a good forgiveness story... but that's because the person EARNS the forgiveness, and actually sincerely apologizes and atones. (REALLY atones, not haggles it like an unwanted price and acting like a smug shit or a martyr the whole damn time.)

It's why I always liked Spider Robinson's stories--he writes a lot about forgiveness and penance, and also specifically writes a story where the characters DON'T forgive. Because while the person apologizing is sincerely sorry, he also plans to do absolutely NOTHING about the terrible things he did, and will most certainly do in the future, so NO FORGIVENESS FOR HIM!

It depends on context?

[(Anonymous)]

Er, I mean, there are quite a few different factors that greatly influence the dynamics of this sort of scenario?

To use your example, it kind of makes a big difference whether you interpret it as a) Fingon forgave Maedhros and still considered himself friends with him and bound by loyalty to him when he went to rescue him or b) Fingon was royally pissed and had no intention of forgiving Maedhros and only rescued him because he couldn't bear to just let Maedhros rot in jail forever, and only forgave him after Maedhros apologized and explained that he didn't actually want burn the ships.

The two are very different situations, and the same applies to lots of "forgiving the friend/family member who wronged you" situations in other works - some situations have the person only forgive the other guy after an apology/explanation, other situation have the person forgive the other guy without an apology/explanation and having the other guy only apologize later.

Now in RL, yeah it's hard to tell when someone is lying about being sorry about some shit they pulled, or about their intentions in pulling that shit. But in fiction, 99% it's pretty crystal clear whether the apologizing character is sincere or not. I think that kind of makes a REALLY big difference???

WHY DOES NO ONE KNOW WHAT "FORGIVENESS" MEANS

[(Anonymous)]

Forgiveness does not mean saying that the bad behavior was fine.

In fact, the VERY DEFINITION of forgiveness absolutely REQUIRES believing and declaring that the behavior was NOT okay.

If you acknowledge the behavior was okay, then there would BE NOTHING TO FORGIVE. Forgiveness ONLY applies to something BAD that someone did.

Here's some official definitions:

Forgive (v):

-stop feeling angry or resentful toward (someone) for an offense, flaw, or mistake.

-to give up resentment of or claim to requital for (an offense)

- to cease to feel resentment against (an offender)

-To give up resentment against or stop wanting to punish (someone) for an offense or fault;

-a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you

ALL of these require the understanding and explicit acknowledgment that the thing the person did was definitely, absolutely, bad or hurtful/harmful to you.

NONE of these require befriending the person, letting the person do it again, or minimizing the awfulness of the thing they did.